Register  |   |   |  Calendar  |  Latest Topics
 
 
 


Reply
  Author   Comment   Page 1 of 5      1   2   3   4   Next   »
steveoifer

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 9,230
Reply with quote  #1 

It's the main reason that the MCOA wants to change "our" name!

 

Review this site and observe the false statements by Flying W, which has undermined our breed!

 

The name "American mastiff" is the mastiff in America and should not be allowed to become used as a fictitious name for a fictitious breed!

 

The Mastiff, English mastiff and American mastiff is just ONE breed! OUR breed!

 

We should fight and protect that long established name!

 

Let the Anatolian cross change THEIR name!

 

http://www.flyingwfarms.com/emastiff_index.html

 

Read the description of their mix and see how they surreptitiously attempt to "become" identical to the real thing!

 

We have lots of grounds to support our case, what are we waiting for?


__________________
For the betterment of the breed

"Above all, a uniform type should be aimed at by breeders and uniformity of type can only exist in a proportionate ratio in the purity and distinctiveness in any breed"!.........M. Moore
"If breeds did not adhere to a specific shape, form, and colour range, or if breeders disregarded this blueprint, the breed would degenerate to the point that it would hardly resemble the breed at all. Selective breeding does not just create breeds- it preserves them as well." Breeding purebred dogs inherently means accepting limitations on your freedom to just breed anything...Catherine McMillan
" A reinforced consolidation of the American and British standards could be the basis for restoring our breed to the gladiatorial glory of its ancient past, in capability if not in usage".....Norman Howard Carp-Gordon
"I can live with doubt, or not knowing, rather than to have answers that might be wrong"...Richard Feynman
0
Crossroads

Registered:
Posts: 2,598
Reply with quote  #2 

I just looked on my Divine Farm Pedigree Program.  There were nine Flying W Farms mastiffs on it.  Their pedigrees have some fairly recognizable kennel names.  None were listed as champions.  All had birthdates in the mid to late 90's.  Interesting.


__________________
Jennifer Patterson
Crossroads Mastiffs
http://www.crossroadsmastiffs.com

"Only two defining forces have ever offered to die for you, Jesus Christ and the American GI....one died for your soul, the other died for your freedom"
0
NancyE

Registered:
Posts: 850
Reply with quote  #3 

What are we waiting for?

 

 

Article VII. Amendments

Section 1.

 

Amendments to the Constitution and Bylaws etc may be proposed by written petition, addressed to the Corresponding Secretary signed by twenty percent of the membership in good standing.

 

 

 

OK so this isn't an Amendment, but can we not write up a PROPOSAL that the Board of Directors or Diane Collings contact (who, Flying W farms? the Continental Club? The "American Mastiff" breeders listed on the main website?) about the issue of having them change their name? 

 Steve you have said that you would be willing to confer with MCOA's attorneys on our jurisdiction over this name.

 

The proposal needs to be signed by 20% of the membership, Jann you have the directory? I take this to mean actual signatures, not an email petition.

So, what are we waiting for?


__________________
Nancy
http://www.kitanmastiffs.com
0
steveoifer

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 9,230
Reply with quote  #4 

The MCOA can confer with lawyers, before any such action is necessary!

 

The question remains, have they done so?


__________________
For the betterment of the breed

"Above all, a uniform type should be aimed at by breeders and uniformity of type can only exist in a proportionate ratio in the purity and distinctiveness in any breed"!.........M. Moore
"If breeds did not adhere to a specific shape, form, and colour range, or if breeders disregarded this blueprint, the breed would degenerate to the point that it would hardly resemble the breed at all. Selective breeding does not just create breeds- it preserves them as well." Breeding purebred dogs inherently means accepting limitations on your freedom to just breed anything...Catherine McMillan
" A reinforced consolidation of the American and British standards could be the basis for restoring our breed to the gladiatorial glory of its ancient past, in capability if not in usage".....Norman Howard Carp-Gordon
"I can live with doubt, or not knowing, rather than to have answers that might be wrong"...Richard Feynman
0
SilverKnight

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 2,003
Reply with quote  #5 
Probably a silly question - but don't we have any lawyers in the Membership?
__________________
Lora & Angus

http://www.silverknightmastiffs.com
0
steveoifer

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 9,230
Reply with quote  #6 

There may be dog food producers as well in the membership, that doesn't mean we'll get free food!...LOL


__________________
For the betterment of the breed

"Above all, a uniform type should be aimed at by breeders and uniformity of type can only exist in a proportionate ratio in the purity and distinctiveness in any breed"!.........M. Moore
"If breeds did not adhere to a specific shape, form, and colour range, or if breeders disregarded this blueprint, the breed would degenerate to the point that it would hardly resemble the breed at all. Selective breeding does not just create breeds- it preserves them as well." Breeding purebred dogs inherently means accepting limitations on your freedom to just breed anything...Catherine McMillan
" A reinforced consolidation of the American and British standards could be the basis for restoring our breed to the gladiatorial glory of its ancient past, in capability if not in usage".....Norman Howard Carp-Gordon
"I can live with doubt, or not knowing, rather than to have answers that might be wrong"...Richard Feynman
0
SilverKnight

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 2,003
Reply with quote  #7 

I'm not asking for freebies, I think they'd have a good perspective on the situation and wonder why they haven't had anything to say in the matter.


__________________
Lora & Angus

http://www.silverknightmastiffs.com
0


Registered:
Posts: N/A
Reply with quote  #8 

Yes, this was the whole premise of the discussion of a possible name change almost 4 years ago.  It was discussed at the 2003 annual meeting.  No one seemed to pay attention or care, except for those that were actively involved in Mastiff Rescue at the time.  Now, everyone is all of a sudden paying attention - now that the ballots have been sent.  Better late than never!  Time to be proactive and hurry !  Don't just talk about it - those of you in the club, do something about it, and do it now.  Lots of us have decided to come back to the club to also be a part of the solution. 

0
steveoifer

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 9,230
Reply with quote  #9 

Copyright law is a separate area of legal expertise. Not every lawyer is well versed in that arena and it's been my experience that you won't hear much, given the fact that anyone with a slight understanding of this issue, realizes that they need to FULLY understand ALL of the facets of this issue, before rendering any opinion of merit! That full understanding cannot take place until the MCOA releases their own willingness to pursue this action through legal means and the parameters in which the AKC will get involved!

 

Any concrete legal "opinion", has to based on substantive researched facts,  not based on a general legal opinion on whether our case is actionable, or not, in court.


__________________
For the betterment of the breed

"Above all, a uniform type should be aimed at by breeders and uniformity of type can only exist in a proportionate ratio in the purity and distinctiveness in any breed"!.........M. Moore
"If breeds did not adhere to a specific shape, form, and colour range, or if breeders disregarded this blueprint, the breed would degenerate to the point that it would hardly resemble the breed at all. Selective breeding does not just create breeds- it preserves them as well." Breeding purebred dogs inherently means accepting limitations on your freedom to just breed anything...Catherine McMillan
" A reinforced consolidation of the American and British standards could be the basis for restoring our breed to the gladiatorial glory of its ancient past, in capability if not in usage".....Norman Howard Carp-Gordon
"I can live with doubt, or not knowing, rather than to have answers that might be wrong"...Richard Feynman
0
goldleaf

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 8,058
Reply with quote  #10 
Steve,
Could you please post an outline of exactly what steps (in proper order) would need to be taken to start this?  I feel a clear outline is step #1.  Thank you.


__________________
0
steveoifer

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 9,230
Reply with quote  #11 

Well Jann, I think that we have already started the process!

 

It may look confusing and disorganized at present, but if we keep focused and stay on course the pieces should all fall into place!

 

The 1st step is to try and get the national club to begin this process.

 

They have begun, but went off course in my opinion, by pursuing a name change before attempting to get the Am-Ma people to change their name.

 

Bear in mind, that I am not a member of the MCOA at present ( just sent my papers off to join again today ) therefore I really don't know what has transpired behind the scenes.

 

Even if I were a member, it's no guarantee that they would respond to my series of questions. So I'm in the dark as much as anyone else I assume!

 

All I can add, or suggest, is to keep the pressure on the club and e-mail them with questions that can be answered by them.

 

For example:

 

Has an attorney looked into this issue?

Has the attorney been made familiar with the history of both breeds?

Does this attorney have a background in dealing with breed clubs, AKC matters and copyright law?

Have we approached the "membership" and founders of the Am-Ma yet and discussed if this change can happen without having to go into the court system?

Has the CKC been made aware that they can be brought into this suit?

 

As a businessman, I'm able to move in straight lines and get to destinations without too much interference. But when dealing with committees, boards, memberships, by-laws, AKC issues etc., there are bound to be delays of all kinds and at times it can't be avoided!

 

The people elected to govern the MCOA are just ordinary fanciers, that most probably are over their heads in these types of issues. They are not to be condemned! It is a thankless job for the most part, and they don't desire to be sued for mishandling matters of importance. This creates a very slow process, that can rarely be effective in obtaining fast short term solutions. There are logistical problems, personal time constraints and numerous cross currents, which inhibit action. Not to mention voting!

 

I feel that we need to give the MCOA board the benefit of the doubt and be patient, but tenacious at the same time!

 

Let's stick to the major point, which is the name change.

 

Let's pursue the Am-Ma name change first, before we even bring "our" name change up for a vote.

 

Let's find out if any lawyers have been involved!

 

E-mail, write, or phone your concerns into the MCOA.

 

Lets invite the MCOA board, or a representative of the club to address this forum at a specific time & place!

 

Let's keep these issues alive and no doubt some movement will occur!

 

What say you!

 

 

 


__________________
For the betterment of the breed

"Above all, a uniform type should be aimed at by breeders and uniformity of type can only exist in a proportionate ratio in the purity and distinctiveness in any breed"!.........M. Moore
"If breeds did not adhere to a specific shape, form, and colour range, or if breeders disregarded this blueprint, the breed would degenerate to the point that it would hardly resemble the breed at all. Selective breeding does not just create breeds- it preserves them as well." Breeding purebred dogs inherently means accepting limitations on your freedom to just breed anything...Catherine McMillan
" A reinforced consolidation of the American and British standards could be the basis for restoring our breed to the gladiatorial glory of its ancient past, in capability if not in usage".....Norman Howard Carp-Gordon
"I can live with doubt, or not knowing, rather than to have answers that might be wrong"...Richard Feynman
0
steveoifer

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 9,230
Reply with quote  #12 

The reason that I created the term "Am-Ma", is that there is a double edge sword in belittleing the American Mastiff. Namely, any devaluation focused on that name, will automatically spill off onto our mastiffs!

 

Therefore, I would strongly advise in refraining from use any mention of "mastiff" when speaking of mutt, mongrel or any other defamatory term in regards to "educating" the public about the Am-Ma!

 

We don't want to cure the "disease" and kill the patient in the process!


__________________
For the betterment of the breed

"Above all, a uniform type should be aimed at by breeders and uniformity of type can only exist in a proportionate ratio in the purity and distinctiveness in any breed"!.........M. Moore
"If breeds did not adhere to a specific shape, form, and colour range, or if breeders disregarded this blueprint, the breed would degenerate to the point that it would hardly resemble the breed at all. Selective breeding does not just create breeds- it preserves them as well." Breeding purebred dogs inherently means accepting limitations on your freedom to just breed anything...Catherine McMillan
" A reinforced consolidation of the American and British standards could be the basis for restoring our breed to the gladiatorial glory of its ancient past, in capability if not in usage".....Norman Howard Carp-Gordon
"I can live with doubt, or not knowing, rather than to have answers that might be wrong"...Richard Feynman
0
steveoifer

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 9,230
Reply with quote  #13 

http://www.deepwoodmastiffs.com/Breed_Information.htm#Council

 

Their "club" formed in 2002!

 

Our American Mastiff Club formed in 1879!!!


__________________
For the betterment of the breed

"Above all, a uniform type should be aimed at by breeders and uniformity of type can only exist in a proportionate ratio in the purity and distinctiveness in any breed"!.........M. Moore
"If breeds did not adhere to a specific shape, form, and colour range, or if breeders disregarded this blueprint, the breed would degenerate to the point that it would hardly resemble the breed at all. Selective breeding does not just create breeds- it preserves them as well." Breeding purebred dogs inherently means accepting limitations on your freedom to just breed anything...Catherine McMillan
" A reinforced consolidation of the American and British standards could be the basis for restoring our breed to the gladiatorial glory of its ancient past, in capability if not in usage".....Norman Howard Carp-Gordon
"I can live with doubt, or not knowing, rather than to have answers that might be wrong"...Richard Feynman
0


Registered:
Posts: N/A
Reply with quote  #14 

I just want to share a personal experience with you.  If I've said this before please forgive me.  In Virginia, deer hunting is done with dogs.  These poor hunting dogs are a plague to horse owners.  When they run the deer, my horses run too, often causing injuries and great stress.  And they will kill dairy goats which apparently smell similar to deer.

 

My husband and I decided to look at "livestock guardian" dogs as an option for protecting our animals.  We contacted a very nice man who bred Anatolian Shepards.  We went to meet his dogs.  He told us not to make eye contact with any dog because they would take it as a challenge.  We could not touch any of the dogs.  He finally brought out a puppy of about four months of age.  The puppy responded very appropriately to my children and to myself.  However, he walked up to my husband, smelled him and proceeded to lift his leg and "mark" my husband.  Needless to say, we decided this breed would not work for us.

 

I am not saying this is a "bad" dog.  I am saying I think it is insane to combine this dog with a mastiff and not anticipate disaster.

0
steveoifer

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 9,230
Reply with quote  #15 

I agree Dianne!

 

I'm just trying to imagine a mastiff cross doing that to your hubby!...LOL


__________________
For the betterment of the breed

"Above all, a uniform type should be aimed at by breeders and uniformity of type can only exist in a proportionate ratio in the purity and distinctiveness in any breed"!.........M. Moore
"If breeds did not adhere to a specific shape, form, and colour range, or if breeders disregarded this blueprint, the breed would degenerate to the point that it would hardly resemble the breed at all. Selective breeding does not just create breeds- it preserves them as well." Breeding purebred dogs inherently means accepting limitations on your freedom to just breed anything...Catherine McMillan
" A reinforced consolidation of the American and British standards could be the basis for restoring our breed to the gladiatorial glory of its ancient past, in capability if not in usage".....Norman Howard Carp-Gordon
"I can live with doubt, or not knowing, rather than to have answers that might be wrong"...Richard Feynman
0


Registered:
Posts: N/A
Reply with quote  #16 

I'm sure some of you already know this, but Yahoo has a number of lists that you can join.  One of the categories is mastiff.  Well, there is a list there dedicated solely to the American Mastiff.  It has over 400 messages this month already and well over 300 members.  Membership is required.  Perhaps someone with good people skills could join this list.  It does say all mastiffs are welcome.  Also, should we perhaps contact the owner of the list and ask him/her to change the category to American Mastiff?  Because as it is, they are in "our" category on Yahoo.  Personally, I think that is a big deal.

 

Here is the link:   http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AmericanMastiffs/

0


Registered:
Posts: N/A
Reply with quote  #17 
Here is another link to an AM forum.  It has a long list of breeders and topics such as health.  http://americanmastiff.forumup.org/index.php?mforum=americanmastiff
0
mariaruoto

Registered:
Posts: 3,846
Reply with quote  #18 

http://www.deepwoodmastiffs.com/Right_Breed.htm

 

They certainly have no right using our dogs name - mastiff on their site...at least keep it clear throughout that they breed mutts...um...sorry...american mastiffs...This page should be changed from is a mastiff right for you to is an american mastiff right for you...

 

Is a Mastiff the Right Breed for You?

We wouldn't give up our Mastiffs for ANYTHING!  They are members of our family and bring nothing but fun and joy to our lives!  However, a Mastiff might not be the right breed for every family.  Please read the following to determine if one of these Gentle Giants is right for your family!


Home | Our Dogs | Puppies | Waiting List | Breed Information | About Us

Is a Mastiff the Right Breed For You?

You're interested in a Mastiff.  Owning a Mastiff can be the beginning of a wonderful relationship with years of happiness or it can be the beginning of overwhelming responsibility for which you may not be prepared.  Mastiffs are the largest of the dog breeds and can range in size from 28 inches to 35 inches at the shoulder.  They weigh anywhere from 130 pounds to 200+ pounds.  Once they are over their major growing stage, they will eat between 6-8 cups of high quality food per day.

There are several questions you must ask yourself to determine if you are ready to become a Mastiff owner.  Answer honestly to insure yourself, your family, and your Mastiff the future you all deserve.


Do I Really Want a Mastiff?  Why Do I Want a Mastiff?

Mastiffs are wonderful companions.  They are not dogs to be left outside chained to a doghouse or to be left alone in a fenced yard.  Oftentimes, behavioral problems occur when a Mastiff is not a member of the family but is relegated to the backyard with only occasional human contact.  Mastiffs desperately need lots of human companionship to be properly socialized, trained, and "owned".  If your house is too small for a 130-200+ lb. dog, then a Mastiff is not the dog for you.

Some Mastiffs will snore.  Are you a light sleeper or one that needs constant quiet to sleep?  If so, you may want to consider another breed.

Mastiffs are wonderful with children.  They are very gentle and quite tolerant of ear and tail pulls, sitting on their backs (not a good idea), and they adore licking kids faces.  They will protect their children.  However, the swinging of a Mastiff's tail can knock a small child over.  If you have very small children who are just learning to walk, you may want to wait until they are older before getting a Mastiff.

Mastiffs are NOT guard dogs.  They will protect their family more along the lines of a watch dog than guard dog.  If your intent is to have a dog that is a guard dog then you must think about another breed.  Mastiffs will bark and let intruders know they are not accepted.  Their mere presence and bark will scare the bravest of burglars.  Once you accept the guest, chances are good that they will too.


Can I Really Afford To Keep a Mastiff?

A Mastiff costs more to maintain than smaller breeds due to its large size and weight.  Larger crates cost more.  More and larger consumables are needed - food, toys and the like.  An adult male Mastiff can go through 40-70 pounds of dry dog food a month.  A Mastiff, due to its size, will cost you more money at the Vet's office also.  The antibiotic for a toy poodle may only cost $10.00 but since most dosages are based on weight, a week's supply of antibiotics for your Mastiff can cost upwards of $50 to $100.  Heartworm medicine costs more, shots can sometimes be more costly, etc.

Do I Have Time To Spend Training, Exercising, And Grooming a Mastiff?

A Mastiff should have obedience training.  After all, do you want to be pulled down the street, legs streaming behind you, when your 185 lb. male wants to chase that squirrel?  The obedience training must be the positive reinforcement type.  Mastiffs are very sensitive to the reactions of their people.  Most Mastiffs can be absolutely crushed by harsh words.  Mastiffs respond well to love, praise, and especially treats.  The training should not be negatively based nor should it be the type where the dog is jerked around using different types of collars.

A Mastiff should be extensively socialized.  This includes taking your puppy (and later dog) as many places as possible to expose it to many situations, many different people, and many different dogs.  Proper socialization takes time and effort.  If you do not have extra time to devote to socializing your new puppy, you should not purchase a Mastiff.

Exercising a Mastiff is not as difficult as exercising one of the various sporting breeds who seem to have endless energy.  A Mastiff is happy to go on 2 walks a day of about 20-30 minutes.  Some love to hike and swim, but jogging companions they are not!  You should not take them jogging as it can be very difficult on their joints.  About a mile or so walk twice a day is enough unless it's an older Mastiff, then play it by ear.  Remember, Mastiffs are like some of us... a couch is their idea of the perfect place to spend a day but exercise is important to keep them fit and help them live longer.

Grooming a Mastiff is very easy.  One to two times per week with a shedding blade or comb is sufficient.  A Mastiff only needs a bath when it begins to smell "doggy" or if it has gotten into something that needs to be washed off.  Bathing a Mastiff is sort of like washing a hairy Volkswagen except that the VW won't shake and drench you in shampoo or rinse water.  Cutting nails is important and should be done regularly.  It should be started early in life as wrestling with a large dog is very interesting!  Teeth cleaning should also be done regularly.


Will a Mastiff Fit Into My Lifestyle And My Home?

No matter what, a Mastiff wants to be with you.  They are devoted to their owners and want to have contact with them frequently.  They will follow you from room to room as you do your work.  Some want to touch you all the time.  Do you own a big car or van so your Mastiff can go for rides with you to the park, beach, post office, Vet's office, etc?

As stated earlier, a Mastiff is a house dog.  A small house is suitable as long as the Mastiff goes for walks and plays outside.  The yard should be fenced and the Mastiff obedience-trained through the basics: come, sit, stay, down, and he should walk on leash without dragging you down the street.

Within your home, Mastiffs need a place of their own where they will feel comfortable and secure, just like any other dog.  Crates are a practical solution, especially for puppy house training and safety.  Wire crates are best so that the pup can see out and because they are harder to chew or destroy.  Purchase the largest one you can afford so your Mastiff can grow into it.  A dog bed by your bed is also a good idea since Mastiffs want to be with their families and it is preferable not to let them sleep on the bed with you.  Jumping off of a bed is not good for the joints when they are young, and when they get older, space could be an issue!


Are you trying to talk me out of getting a Mastiff?

No and yes.

No, because it would be wonderful if everyone could experience the joy and satisfaction of being owned by one of these Gentle Giants.

Yes, because as great and wonderful as they are, Mastiffs are not the right breed for everyone.  It would be much, much better if you found out that a Mastiff wasn't the breed for you NOW instead of after you've already gotten one.

Mastiffs are giants and take up a lot of space on the couch and in the house and car.  They have powerful tails that can clean off a coffee table in one fell swoop or knock a small child down with one wag.  Mastiffs like to be close to their family and will sit on your feet, lean against you, often put their paw on you and lay their heavy head in your lap.  Mastiffs like to follow you wherever you go and be part of whatever you do.  They can block doorways with their huge bodies, stand in front of the TV and block your view, and take up large amounts of space with their crates and toys.  If you can't handle any of the above, then a Mastiff is not the dog for you!

Mastiffs need to be properly socialized and trained.  Do you have time to devote to taking your Mastiff many different places, introduce it to a variety of people and dogs?  Do you have time to attend training classes with your puppy/dog?  If you are a very busy person who doesn't have a lot of free time to devote to your dog, then a Mastiff is not the dog for you!

Mastiffs are not guard dogs, they are watch dogs.  They know the difference between friend and foe and pick up on the emotions of their owners.  They possess the natural ability to defend their family should the need arise.  Mastiffs are not recommended as a guard dog for businesses or junkyards because of their instinctual need to bond with people.  The Mastiff temperament is not suited for formal "guard dog" training due to their sensitive nature and because to do so may permanently ruin their temperament.

If you are on a tight budget or do not enjoy spending money on your dog, please reconsider getting this breed.  The initial purchase price of the pup will be the least expensive part of owning a Mastiff.

However, if you've taken all this into consideration and you are ready for a dog who will love and adore you and your family members for all of it's life, one who will make you feel like you are the most special person in the world, one who would do anything within its power to make you happy, then a Mastiff would be a wonderful addition to your family!


Owning a Mastiff is a major responsibility, but they will reward you a million times over with their love.


__________________
"I hope that someday they can understand that it's not 'just a dog', but the thing that gives me humanity and keeps me from being 'just a (man or) woman'."
~Biby '06

Maria S. Ruoto
Dunraven Mastiffs
http://www.dunravenmastiffs.com
Mastiffs4U Store
0
SilverKnight

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 2,003
Reply with quote  #19 

Quote:
Perhaps someone with good people skills could join this list.  It does say all mastiffs are welcome. 

 

I had joined a while back....didn't really post anything until a couple weeks ago when they were discussing their lack of interest in being AKC registered. Now I'm not the biggest fan of the AKC but - again, you can't moan about something if you aren't willing to join in and try to change it. The thread went on for a few days then one of the other members had a bit of a moment and the thread was effectively killed. They've not much interest in education and serious issues (from their own mouths). And that's fine - but I like to learn...and I sometimes (as discovered with the name change issue) change my own tune when presented with a valid argument.


__________________
Lora & Angus

http://www.silverknightmastiffs.com
0


Registered:
Posts: N/A
Reply with quote  #20 

Lora,

You hit the nail on the head.  My hope was that if we joined their lists two things could happen.  One, we would know more about them, good and bad.  Two, we could have a dialogue instead of a fight.  I am very much against this "new breed" too, but I have to think there must be some people "in" the breed who would do the right thing if they knew what it was.

0
SilverKnight

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 2,003
Reply with quote  #21 
Deanne, they all seem to be very nice people who love their dogs. I appreciate that as much as the next person. I thought I'd have something to contribute and maybe learn something at the same time. We also had another visitor over there that really didn't endear himself...so I guess that's done. Any attempt I make now is going to be suspect.
__________________
Lora & Angus

http://www.silverknightmastiffs.com
0
steveoifer

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 9,230
Reply with quote  #22 

The issue of proper names....( *see Fido )

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proper_name


__________________
For the betterment of the breed

"Above all, a uniform type should be aimed at by breeders and uniformity of type can only exist in a proportionate ratio in the purity and distinctiveness in any breed"!.........M. Moore
"If breeds did not adhere to a specific shape, form, and colour range, or if breeders disregarded this blueprint, the breed would degenerate to the point that it would hardly resemble the breed at all. Selective breeding does not just create breeds- it preserves them as well." Breeding purebred dogs inherently means accepting limitations on your freedom to just breed anything...Catherine McMillan
" A reinforced consolidation of the American and British standards could be the basis for restoring our breed to the gladiatorial glory of its ancient past, in capability if not in usage".....Norman Howard Carp-Gordon
"I can live with doubt, or not knowing, rather than to have answers that might be wrong"...Richard Feynman
0
steveoifer

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 9,230
Reply with quote  #23 

Re: Legal issues concerning the American mastiff name change.

 

OK Group!

 

I just finished my session with the copyright attorney at Cowan, Liebowitz & Latman, P.C. This firm specializes in patents & copyright law. I spoke with Richard S. Mandel Esq., who I have had prior dealings with in the past, on unrelated matters.

 

Here are the bottom lines:

 

i- This is now a 20 year old issue.

ii- Risky outcome.

iii- Very expensive

iv- Major undertaking

v- Could take years

vi- No preliminary injunction

vii- Discovery, evidence, expert witnesses needed.

viii- Problematic and too late

ix- "Mastiff" not a trademark

x- Misrepresentation/misidentification ( may be proven, but no name change would result )

xi- Courts not obvious to breed specific subtle nuances

xii- Hard scientific evidence needed

 

That's the good news!

 

Realistically, this American mastiff issue needed to be addressed much earlier in the game ( 20 years earlier ), at this stage we might be able to get them to amend certain claims made on their site & literature, but getting the CKC & the cross to change their name, will be a monumental effort, without a clear result, or outcome!

 

Practically speaking, the only course of action is to change our name, or do nothing!

 

Keep in mind that this evaluation is only one lawyers opinion, but I believe that it hits many nails and is on target! Others may feel free to do their own investigative work and I welcome them to report their findings.

 

 


__________________
For the betterment of the breed

"Above all, a uniform type should be aimed at by breeders and uniformity of type can only exist in a proportionate ratio in the purity and distinctiveness in any breed"!.........M. Moore
"If breeds did not adhere to a specific shape, form, and colour range, or if breeders disregarded this blueprint, the breed would degenerate to the point that it would hardly resemble the breed at all. Selective breeding does not just create breeds- it preserves them as well." Breeding purebred dogs inherently means accepting limitations on your freedom to just breed anything...Catherine McMillan
" A reinforced consolidation of the American and British standards could be the basis for restoring our breed to the gladiatorial glory of its ancient past, in capability if not in usage".....Norman Howard Carp-Gordon
"I can live with doubt, or not knowing, rather than to have answers that might be wrong"...Richard Feynman
0


Registered:
Posts: N/A
Reply with quote  #24 
Has it occurred to anyone else that changing "our" name makes us look guilty of something?  I know I'm new to mastiffs but I really think the most effective thing we could do would be to promote promote promote, so that the first thing people think of when they hear mastiff isn't some atrocity.  And we all know that people rarely think beyond the first thing.
0
steveoifer

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 9,230
Reply with quote  #25 

It is a corrective measure to define the breed!

 

If we have to face every legal issue involving "mastiff" in the suit, or just lay back and take the heat for other breeds, which bring the problem to our doorsteps, we are just in denial!

 

There is no clear resolve to this dilemma!

 

Either we change the name, or do nothing!

 

There is no clear cut benefit emerging from either action!


__________________
For the betterment of the breed

"Above all, a uniform type should be aimed at by breeders and uniformity of type can only exist in a proportionate ratio in the purity and distinctiveness in any breed"!.........M. Moore
"If breeds did not adhere to a specific shape, form, and colour range, or if breeders disregarded this blueprint, the breed would degenerate to the point that it would hardly resemble the breed at all. Selective breeding does not just create breeds- it preserves them as well." Breeding purebred dogs inherently means accepting limitations on your freedom to just breed anything...Catherine McMillan
" A reinforced consolidation of the American and British standards could be the basis for restoring our breed to the gladiatorial glory of its ancient past, in capability if not in usage".....Norman Howard Carp-Gordon
"I can live with doubt, or not knowing, rather than to have answers that might be wrong"...Richard Feynman
0
Previous Topic | Next Topic
Print
Reply

Quick Navigation:

Easily create a Forum Website with Website Toolbox.


THANK YOU FOR VISITING OUR BOARD!!