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Mastiffman23

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Reply with quote  #1 
So I have been researching both breeds for quite some time.  I have also been reading the many comments, both good and bad, that each have been saying about each others breeds.  What I am wondering, is what is the major difference in the two besides one being a newer breed?  I have seen both breeds in person and can hardly tell the difference.  Both are friendly and healthy looking but this is primarily the actions taken by the owner.  I have owned many "aggressive" breeds in my lifetime and can attest that there is no one breed that is always vicious no matter what you do.  

Some might say that the AM is "drool proof" but if you personally believe that, and buy based on this solely, i'm sorry but you are dumb.  If you have seen Family Guy, this would be similar to the episode when're Peter goes to buy a new car and the dealer tells him that the red sports car only had one owner…James Bond.  Meanwhile there is a picture of an engine not an actual one under the hood but he takes it anyway based on what is said not on facts.

My other question is in regards to lineage.  The AM is not an AKC breed correct?  Why is this?  EMs are considered pure breeds but weren't ALL dogs at one point considered mutts?  They all descended from multiple breeds being mixed together at some point right?  I guess my question is, do i need a pure breed dog if it's just for family?  I am a Biomedical engineer so I have a good understanding of how simple biology works.  Isn't a pure breed at times bad since you have similar genetics being mixed together more often than not?  In a wider perspective, inbreeding essentially which is known to harbor many health issues?

I just want to get unbiased information to make a proper decision.  A lot of what I have read from both sides, to me, is based on financial gain.  One group stepping in the territory of another, taking away from sales maybe.  I will say though, sadly, i see more EM owner's and breeders talking smack without proper knowledge of the breed they are bashing.  AM owners do it too but not as much.  I just don't see how someone's simple decision to have a family pet can be such a pot stirrer and cause such harsh words for each other.  I too will most likely be bashed and I don't even own either breed yet.  I hope those that are educated will respond in a manner that shows they can be civil and provide clear cut evidence for their argument and not just bash to bash.

Want to get a pup soon so information is greatly appreciated. 

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kcornel4

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Reply with quote  #2 
Hi, Mastiffman,

I think I can contribute some helpful, and balanced information.

First, you are correct, ALL breeds were originally crosses at some point in time -- it depends where in the time continuum you pound in the marker -- does 200 years since the crosses were used define a 'pure bred'?100 years? 50 years? Less?The American Mastiff has now been around for closing in on 40 years. In 2002 it was recognised as a breed by the CKC. More recently, when it was able to fulfill the requirements of the AKC for beginning the process for breed recognition, the membership voted against pursuing this, as they believe the AKC has done irreparable damage to its recognised breeds as showing took precedence over function, health and temperament. Additionally, the mission of the American Mastiff Breeders Council is to produce family pets, not show or working dogs. I realise the CKC is not considered a 'legitimate' registry by many, however it has come a long way in recent years, and is the haven for several proper working breeds who feared the same thing about the AKC.

I was surprised to learn (as I said) that a number of working breeds -- Border Collies, several of the 'gun dogs', and so on opted for the CKC due to the same concerns as the AM community. I would point out that many of our mastiff breeds have only recently been AKC recognised; for example, the Cane Corso was just recognised in 2010. The AM was eligible and met the criteria for beginning the journey a couple of years ago, but elected not to -- for reasons stated.


There are only 8 approved breeders in this country, and they all ONLY sell their puppies with spay/neuter contracts prohibiting breeding. This is specifically to prevent AM's from falling into the hands of BYB's.

It was certainly the founder's objective to create a breed that is identical to the English Mastiff but without the drool, and unfortunately her site still states that. This is one of the points that -- from my observations -- has raised the ire of  EM people in terms of potential lost revenues and perceived 'riding on our coattails'. I have several times asked for quantification of the losses or damages incurred -- as my poll shows that AM owners are likely to have EMs as well, hence it is not an 'either/or' purchasing decision. No quantification has been forthcoming, so claims of losses or damage imo are up for conjecture.

Like all more recent breeds, the AM is a work in progress. Thus far, results show that they may tend to have drier mouths, but there is a great deal of individual variation. Health claims are still unsubstantiated. There is evidence that they tend to live longer than EMs -- avg life span appears to be 12 - 14 years, and there are a number of individuals who have lived to 16.

Whilst some believe they do, many forum member-owners I polled/spoke with, said  that, in their opinion, the AM does NOT look exactly like the EM, and standards on dog information sites, the American Mastiff Family Forum, and breeders' individual sites reflect these differences -- (i.e., rectangular versus square head, almond eyes, and lighter/leaner builds than EMs). I recently posted a survey on the forum as to what people loved about their AMs, how many they had, and what influenced subsequent purchase decisions after the first. Most people who responded had 2 - 3, as well as EMs. They described their AMs as 'potato chip' dogs -- you couldn't just have one. They liked the 'lighter/leaner' look and longer muzzle of their AMs and described their personality as loving but funny and 'goofy'. Hence, the chief reasons for a purchase of a second or additional AM was not driven by the 'drooless' factor.

Re: Anatolian blood:  First of all, we are not talking about a 50 -50 proposition. The founder says 1/8 Anatolian. Whilst I have a bit of an issue about how she arrived at that estimation -- as I don't believe she is a geneticist -- it means fairly small infusion of Anatolian genes. Also, I know what the breed descriptors say, but I have searched for owners of Kangals -- which appears to be the original Anatolian contributor -- to 'interview'. Their comments depict an intelligent dog who is very loving and protective of their family and 'dependents' -- be they sheep, goats, children or neighbors.

I, myself own and EM, whom my family and I absolutely adore! I would encourage you to visit breeders of both EMs and AMs and arrive at the best decision for your family!


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Karen L Cornelius
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Mastiffman23

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Reply with quote  #3 
Thank you Karen for your response.  I hope others will soon chime in so I have varied input on the topic.  Much appreciated! 
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srmorris87

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Reply with quote  #4 
I have an AM x EM x Shar pei. i've had her about a month. All I know is that shes the biggest sweetheart ever! All dogs have good things about them whether they are "pure" or a mutt [smile]

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Lorifrailer

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Reply with quote  #5 

We love all Mastiff's and have had a Neapolitan Mastiff in the past who is responsible for getting us hooked on the "Mastiff" breed and now our second American Mastiff who is almost 5 months old.  We were attracted to the breed because of the many testimonies we read about their personalities, family devotion and silly antics.  The idea of a dog that drooled less was also an attraction after our Neapolitan Mastiff who left a trail everywhere he went and on everyone he met (his personality I must say made up for it all).  The AM's do drool, but significantly less than our NM and ours only after they eat or drink.  They are dry mouthed most of the time but each AM is a little different and some drool more than others.
      Our first AM was a huge love bug with our family and NEVER showed aggression towards any of us.  We were at a dog show once before we got our first one and mentioned to an EM breeder that we were getting an AM pup and he gave us a huge lecture on how we were getting a vicious dog and would come home to find all of our children killed by the dog.  Thankfully we didn't listen to him and went ahead and got our devoted friend who helped us to feel extra secure when our daughter would come home from school by herself. When she walked in the house he was there to watch over her until we got home and we knew she was coming home to a house that safe. We also have a Chihuahua mix who he got along with fine.  She actually "ruled the roost"  and he considered her the alpha dog.  He was very loved but unfortunately had to be put to sleep before his 4th birthday because he developed spondylitis (rare for the breed) which ended up paralyzing him.  FWF Fredericka and Lucy were very supportive during this contacting all the other puppy owners from his litter, their own vet and asking for his x-rays so they could isolate this and make sure it wasn't a hereditary condition. When he was put to sleep they were very compassionate and really reached out to us calling us and emailing..   Losing him was devastating to us all and my husband still wells up with tears when he looks at his picture.  He had a tattoo in his memory done on his back.  Our new pup is a dream.  He is so gentle, potty trained within a week or two of getting him home and never tries to chew on our hands, nip us or chew anything other than his toys.  I'm sure this isn't the general rule because they are just pups and most all pups go through the nipping and chewing stage but we have been very blessed with him.  He also is a love bug and just wants to be with us, cuddling or snoring next to us on the couch which he is doing right now. 
      I have always had dogs off all shapes and sizes and from mutts to pure bred and loved them all.  I have learned it is so important to research basic breed characteristics to learn what breed is the best match for your life style. I love the EM's too but we are hooked on the AM's for our family.  The support from the AM community is unbelievable and I have connected to some of the most wonderful people through their forums.  The contract for adopting the pup stipulates they must be spayed or neutered and attend training classes.  I always say I could have adopted a child easier than the dogs because FWF really cared about where their pups are going and wanted to make sure they had good homes.  I respected that and would rather go through this process than get them from a breeder who just wanted to sell their pups for money not caring what kind of home they went too or what happened to them after they left.    
   I will mention that one thing I have learned through the years is the importance of socialization as pups and through out their lives.  By 14 weeks old it is very important to socialize them in a positive way to as many people, animals, situations as possible to help them to feel secure and be well mannered dogs.  Early  positive training is also very important and training and socialization through out their lives makes for a great dog.  Honestly, all dogs are good, it's the owners who can make them have bad behavior.  Certain breeds have certain traits, energy levels etc. but all can be fantastic dogs if treated and trained correctly.  The AM has been the perfect dog for us and our family but we would never disrespect another breed because we love all dogs and what is right for us may not be what is right for another.  The EM's are beautiful sweet dogs as well.  Good luck with making your choice and kudos for you for making and educated one. 
      *attaching a pic of our pup Gibson (4 1/2 months with our daughter who is now 14)                                                                                        

       


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Lori
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Ginag

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Reply with quote  #6 
All I can say is that Flying W Farms didn't "need" to create a mutt of Mastiff and Anatolian mix. I have been involved with Mastiffs for over 30 years and most of it rescue (I did show, but did not breed). We have ENOUGH dogs, and our EM breed is in trouble of over population and exploitation. I'm not going to go back into history, I am talking about the here and now. Shame on anyone mixing up breeds and filling our shelters with both pure and mixes. We have such a huge problem in this country with folks being duped by designer dogs (mixes still) and yes BYB's of any breed, again to create MORE is a travesty in the dog world. Look for health tested, reputable breeders of ANY breed. Do your homework and don't depend on websites and internet info. GO to the breeder, stay in your area there are PLENTY of Mastiffs to go around. Learn and listen to your head and heart and know that if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is.
Good luck finding your new best friend, but if you want a Mastiff you want it all...drool, hair, snoring, farting and all the good, bad and ugly. If you have doubts, wait and research some more. 
Gina
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