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DRice26

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Reply with quote  #26 

I have to say that everyone that is bashing Christina need to get their facts right. She is a great breeder, she took in a few litters from her stud that the other owner couldn't take care of. I purchased an amazing dog from her, he had been through hell with the other breeder that she had to take the puppies from to give them correct care. She brought my dog back to life and without her I wouldn't have the amazing dog that I have now. She cares unlike some other breeders, she will take back her dog if you don't want them because she doesn't want just anyone to take in her pride and joy. I would purchase another one from her if I didn't already have two. I highly recommend her as a breeder and to purchase your Mastiff from! Thank you Christina for all you have done for Dozer so that we could have him in our lives, and to you all who keep posting un-true and really harsh things about her, get your facts right. She does have her dogs tested, Health, temperament, and adherence. And for you OsoBodacious, I believe it 7, all together total (including using her studs) not 7+.

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Edenskennel

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Reply with quote  #27 
Sorry but the ONLY dog she had tested was "sir renegade austin", and it was ONLY for his Elbows. THAT'S IT. You can look for yourself on offa.org
Nothing else and no one else was tested. Which is a real shame, since there are so many more tests that SHOULD have been done at a minimum. Like HIPS, EYES (PRA, CMR), Cardiac, Cystinuria....I mean really. She obviously TRIED the testing or at least one of them, and decided it was too expensive for the return she would get out of ALL the litters she produces thru stud or her own. As of right now she has 4 breedings planned from now until July. And since it says both dam & sire are on site, they are all her own. She's not breeding to better the breed...especially if she is using all her own stock for all her breedings. AND like it was mentioned earlier entering your dog in 1 A & B match does not count as showing your dog. And lastly, IMO, she shouldn't be selling ANY of these dogs as 'show potential'. No one is saying her dogs are bad or ill tempered. You are obviously partial to them b/c you have her puppies. Everyone's main concern is that she is not only doing a disservice to the breed as a whole by pumping out puppies left and right, but most importantly she is creating more puppies with a much higher risk of having hereditary defects that could be avoided from the very beginning of her breeding career. Everyone here loves their dogs whether they are pure mixed rescued etc...but there is so much more to being a good breeder than creating puppies without the well fare of the breed at heart.

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Dan & Sarah Taylor
(Molly, Bailey Jo, Cain, & Abby)
Eden's Kennel
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Edenskennel

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Reply with quote  #28 
AND another thing...the dogs in the home pages banner don't look remotely like any of the dogs she has listed on the rest of the site. Not even related...much nicer heads and wrinkle to be related. Plus the pictures look familiar...hope this isn't another case of copyright infringement we so often see with other BYB's sites.

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Dan & Sarah Taylor
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Eden's Kennel
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Ern

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Reply with quote  #29 

For what it is worth!!  I have read through several threads in this forum over the short time I have been a member here....  I have known for several years about BYB's.  I was one of those "suckers" that some of you often speak. lol This is in no way troubling to me. Clearly I chose the wrong breeder however, I would not trade my two oldest mastiffs for anything. Both have their own issues and we deal with it... Our oldest female is what I like to call one of those "once-n-a-lifers".  Would I recommend the breeder of our two oldest mastiffs,  ABSOLUTELY NOT!!  Health issues, temperment problems and I was recently made aware of this certain breeders absolute falcification on their website...... I strongly agree the public should be educated of this major problem. (BYB's)  However, I think most of our attention should, at the same time, be focused more closely on how to improve "ALL" particular aspects (positive of course) of this breed as a whole. I know this topic has been posted on before some time ago but has anyone worked toward removing the problem of the broken mask??  Some may say: this is a minor problem as opposed to what we are facing today....  Is it???  I pulled up a few websites of unreputable breeders and found some mastiffs with very little pigment at all on their faces.  It was shocking and I fear this is what our beloved breed is heading toward.  I am not degrading anyone or wanting to offend.  Just trying to raise awareness to address this issue which I feel is just as important as bringing to light the BYB's which must in some way be negated.....  I know most will argue that temperment, health and structure are paramount, but what does it say if the "TYPE" as a whole cannot be sustained....... 

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Ginag

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Reply with quote  #30 
Most mills and BYB's only breed for monetary gain and a false sense of popularity among their peers. Those that are breeding 4 breedings at a time are not thinking of the welfare of the Mastiff breed, but dollars and cents. They do not test anything, so cost is low, they are making the same amount in some cases that a rep. breeder would ask...I've seen this through my many years in the breed and there is little we can do to stop it. They have legal rights to produce whatever the heck they want and it is ruining our breed. They don't strive for type. at all. They don't research the pedigree. Anyone can throw 2 Mastiffs together and say they have "bred a litter"
We have so much information out there, most of all our Parent Club with tons of wonderful news about the breed, and these forums that folks can come to.
When the phone was popular I would get many, many calls for referrals and I always tried to educate the novice buyer in the right direction. Once again, it's why we end up with so many in rescue...poor breeding, planning, selling to just anyone ends up in a crisis.
There is no easy answer other than forewarning novice owners and trying to steer them to the reputable breeders. It's frustrating and since I've been in Mastiffs (l987) nothing seems to change in that regard...sometimes with the internet it's worse...you can purchase a Mastiff puppy right through the puter.
what a world..
Gina
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Highlander

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Reply with quote  #31 
7 litters in 3 years? HHHUUMMMM...shows, I think not..Ribbons all from Fun Matches, except one 2nd place......

I have been in the Breed since 1987 and have been showing and breeding since 1998...total litters produced 3 and one Singleton.....

As for "Ern" and the comment on lack of pigment....Gee finished a boy at 18 months, all owner handler, 4 majors....slight pigment...Total type and structure.

Learn what the hell you are stating, before putting your foot in your mouth.


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Steph
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wifemotherof3

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Reply with quote  #32 

My husband and I were very happy with how Christina treated us and could honestly tell immediately that she loved all her gentle giants. We drove along way to purchase a puppy from her who was born January 15th, 2011. His mother had toxic in her milk because of her knowledge she was able to keep them alive. They are all so lucky to be here. I do stay in contact with our dogs sisters and brothers owners. I have most of them on my facebook page.
Everyone that has purchased a puppy/puppies are very pleased. We have spoke with her many times when we had questions about caring for our dog she has helped us in many ways. I highly recommend her as a breeder and to purchase your Mastiff from! She does like to stay in contact with her puppies owners. Some breeders rather breed dogs and sell them because they are out to get money. Christina really cares and always has since we purchased our english mastiff. We searched for months before going with Mountain Pride Mastiffs. I'm so glad we went with her our dog has such a great temperment he is good with our children. I couldnt believe how easy he was to potty train. He has been a blessing to our home and family. I love him so much although people are scared of him but in reality he wouldnt hurt none. The bigness of him is what scares everyone. Where I live alot of people arent familiar with the breed. We take him out with us and people cant believe how big he is and kids at our sons school loves him. They come over to our vehicle to pet him and he loves every minute of it hes just a big baby. No matter what people will have good and bad things to say about others. But just because I read all this negative stuff doesnt mean I feel any different torward christina. She is a great breeder and friend

 

 

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teresa

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Reply with quote  #33 

WHOA, Steph, Ern doesn't like lack of mask.That's her perogative and I don't think she was singling anyone out (at least I hope not). Some think fluffs are the bane of the breed (obviously, I don't). To me, both are simply cosmetic faults and not a huge deal. That's my perogative.  I agree that type, structure, health and temperament are important.  I think she made it clear that the main thing is not to buy from backyard breeders. I think she is saying she loves her current babies, but realizes she should have looked for a reputable breeder.  No need to be ugly to her about her opinion on mask when the topic about crummy breeders is the important issue here.


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teresa

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Reply with quote  #34 

And, to those that bought dogs from Christina and have nice pets, that's all fine and good, but how do you know if your dog is going to go blind, have bad hips or elbows, develop cysteine stones....? You got a byb dog. You probably could have gotten just as good a pet from your local rescue or animal shelter. Or, you could have gotten a thoroughly health tested puppy that had champion parents (proving they meet the standard) for the same price (on limited registration). Instead, you threw the dice and just hope all the health issues Mastiffs can have doesn't hit your boy. Anyone can put two dog together and get puppies (nature takes care of that part), but only a true "BREEDER" can truly evaluate the quality, health, temperament and pedigree to know that they are producing the true Mastiff type. And, what is up with both Christina and Carole Pope  with having mothers develop "poison" milk? I've known of bitches getting mastitis and the pups not being able to nurse from one teet, but poison milk from a c-section baffles me.


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wifemotherof3

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Reply with quote  #35 

Our dogs mother isnt anything to Christina she doesnt own her. She bred Sir Renegade Austin to Maxie. Any english mastiff you buy you take a chance on them becoming blind, having bad hips or elbows, develop cysteine stones.. All we can do is hope our boy isnt one of them. He goes to the vet like hes supposed to. All I know is atleast my husband and I are doing right by getting him checked etc. Animals are like people they get sick and pass away just like we do.

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Ginag

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Reply with quote  #36 
Just like some big name kennels that have winning dogs at Westminster and the National (let's say) there are going to be BYB's who please a certain clientele and  the Mastiffs turn out to be fine. If you are breeding such large numbers there is bound to be a few good ones that make it to the top of the heap or you will have owners who are completely satisfied with their "pet" quality Mastiff. All in all we have both sides of the coin it seems. I would never recommend anyone to either kind of breeder, for they are not in it for the right reasons. They really convince themselves and others that they are though...sad really.
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Cassie

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Reply with quote  #37 
Wifemotherof3- you are mistaken when you say "Any english mastiff you buy you take a chance on them becoming blind, having bad hips or elbows, develop cysteine stones."  There is a genetic (DNA) test for PRA and CMR. Both of which cause blindness in Mastiffs. You can guarantee that you are not producing puppies that will go blind by having these genetic tests done on your breeding stock. As far as hip and elbow dysplasia and cystinuria are concerned, even though there is no genetic test for them, it is genetic and a parent with hip dysplasia can pass it on to their offspring so any REPUTABLE breeder will test so that they are aware of the sire and dam's status and know they are doing everything they can to prevent this horrible condition in puppies they produce. I can guarantee you that even if I had an outstanding example of the breed, if they had hip dysplasia or cystinuria they would not be bred!

I am a CVT and I have worked in Veterinary practices for 10 years. I get the argument all of the time about how not every dog is going to be a champion show dog and some people "just want pets" I agree, not every dog is going to be a champion show dog but the breeders that are truely out to better the breed and who health test their breeding prospects also sell puppies to pet homes. If someone wants to breed their "pet" and throw type out the window just to produce puppies, you will never see me agreeing with that choice but they should be doing everything they can to make sure that they are producing the healthiest puppies possible.


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Cassie Archibeque CVT
Miramont Mastiffs
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Highlander

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Reply with quote  #38 
Teresa,

You know I love the Fluffs...My point being, someone who is saying a broken mask is not typey, doesn't know what they are speaking about....TroyP, is very typey, look at daddy Toby,  http://mastiffmessageboard.websitetoolbox.com/post/STUD-DOGS-1795545?trail=25 , great grand pa Bud, (both Nationally Ranked), Rocky (Nationally Ranked). CeCe's boy Thaine is also another good example of nice boy. Breed for cosmetics and not the best dogs, you loose and so do your puppy people. There have been several beautiful dogs with broken masks who are and were awesome..BTW, looking at the website several dogs there have broken masks....

And false advertisement on the Breeders Website......Showing Groups Placement...Fun Match placements...Look at the ribbons..one 2nd place show ribbon.....I actually do not give a shit if someone breeds 2 litters a year, but 7 in 3 years...

My concern is the quantity being bred and the false advertisement.....

We work our asses off showing out dogs, traveling, putting up with handlers in the ring to finish dogs and these people pump them out like candy on Halloween.


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Steph
"The superior man is modest in his speech but excels in his actions" Confucius
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teresa

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Reply with quote  #39 
Steph, you are right. I think pointing out cosmetic faults can be corrected very easily with proper breeding, but the structural faults and health problems are much harder. Personally, I love Troy and Toby and if there worst fault is a broken mask, MY GOODNESS that's not a big deal! I think it's very important to educate people in regards to understanding what is REALLY serious and what is minor in the grand scheme of things. And, BOY DO I AGREE with you on the breeder we are discussing. On Facebook, she's on board with Von Schiedel Mastiffs which is a ton of "red flags"!!

Honestly, one of the biggest things we can do is educate how important health testing is on our breed. IT MATTERS! Then, let's work on educating on type and temperament. Maybe if we can get the point across that all Mastiffs are NOT created equal, we can help buyers know when they are being taken. Finally, we can stick together as a community and recommend good breeders. Most of us don't breed all that often so we should be willing to recommend other ethical breeders when we don't have pups available. Maybe then, we can save the new buyer the heart break of the bad breeders.

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DRice26

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Reply with quote  #40 

She has links on her site to the dams owners pages and photos. You seriously need to get all your facts right about her page before you start bashing her, her character, and they way she is with her dogs. People shouldn't throw stones that live in glass houses, and if you want people trying to make an assumption on you and get you upset when its not the truth, remember this, and remember that you didn't have all your facts right and you sound like a complete moron. Christina you have done an amazing job with your dogs, and we trust you. Who cares what these people say, they don't have their facts right, and are judging on their own stupidity by not getting the truth.

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Highlander

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Reply with quote  #41 
Yea cant fix S......ahhh damn never mind

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Steph
"The superior man is modest in his speech but excels in his actions" Confucius
"Leadership is based on inspiration, not domination; on cooperation not intimidation. - William Arthur Wood

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Ginag

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Reply with quote  #42 
All I read is that her dogs are still filling out. They are loyal, good with kids and having puppies...ANYONE can throw a stud and dam together and say they are a breeder. It takes YEARS of know how, research and pedigree study to make a QUALITY Mastiff. Her pedigrees are mish mash and it looks like most of her Mastiffs are pet quality...AGAIN...read the standard, test your Mastiffs, go with improving the breed...LESS is MORE. 7 litters in 3 years? My, my some of my top breeder/owner friends never produced that many. They cared too much for the welfare of the breed. I had been in rescue since l987...seen it all. 
Just because you have Greco (let's not go there) and other prominent names in your way back generation does not make your Mastiff breed worthy.
This website makes me wonder...and the bitches are small and pet quality. I could look no more.
Gina
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Ern

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Reply with quote  #43 

It's a shame that you can't say anything on here even if it a simple observation with out having someone try to rip you apart...... Everything is taken out of context and lost in translation due to this being a post.  If I were singling anyone out individually, let's face it, it would incompass most of the mastiff community since a majority of mastiffs shown today are lacking pigment.  I have never claimed to be an authority figure on the breed and I would hope if I had as much experience as some of you that I would not jump to such premature conclusions......  I agree this is a cosmetic issue and it is obviously at the bottom of the list.  I was simply saying that if we are not careful some of our mastiffs will look like what is shown (pigment wise) on this breeder's page that everyone is concerned with.  If you would like to grow this board it would be helpful to drop the condesending attitude toward others.  It is obsurd to think that temp, health, and structure would be secondary to cosmetic issues and maybe that is where I messed up...  I thought that was an obvious norm......  However, cosmetic issues should be important also..  If this is such a minor issue and an easy fix why not take care of it so it is one less worry?  On a lighter note, I am of the male gender!!!! 

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teresa

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Reply with quote  #44 
**Sorry..."his perogative".....

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Ern

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Reply with quote  #45 

No problem Teresa.  I just didn't want you to think I was someone else!! lol

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MtnPrideMastiffs

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Reply with quote  #46 
Although I appreciate those who have gotten a pup from me speaking up, please don't fall under their ignorance in ranting back. These are the so called breeders that truly care yet spend all their time slandering and bashing others. I for one am not letting it bug me. Those who throw bricks only make me stronger

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Christina Jones
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Highlander

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Reply with quote  #47 
I am not slandering or bashing....I do not like the fact the you falsely advertise your dogs. I do not care for the over breeding..

Ern, I apologize for jumping on you....I have never had a lack of pigment til my Wildchild...Everything else is awesome about him. You can bring pigment back in one breeding. Getting rid of hockiness, straight rears, short necks, slab sided and other faults can take years. I would breed to a dog lacking pigment, before a crappy ass rear or front....I can fix the pigment if and when I use TroyP with a girl with nice pigment. It can also be pulled out with the right genes...Since TroyP was a singeton, who knows what I would have gotten if more had been produced. His one and only 1/2 sister from the same sire has awesome pigment.

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Steph
"The superior man is modest in his speech but excels in his actions" Confucius
"Leadership is based on inspiration, not domination; on cooperation not intimidation. - William Arthur Wood

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teresa

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Reply with quote  #48 

I would also like readers to remember Jann's post about what to look for in a breeder. In order to evaluate pedigrees for a breeding, they need to be posted.

http://mastiffs.org/AvoidPoorlyBredPuppies.html

 

Well said Steph.


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GlacierMastiffs

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Reply with quote  #49 

Christina, we are not wasting our time slandering you.  We put up threads like this so if anyone googles your name these threads come up so people can read and learn for themselves about you.  We all know you have had more then the 7 litters you are stating.  Your website is so full of wrong information from your whelping advise to your pedigrees to the size of your dogs.  We are not policing but when questions come up we are going tostate our opinions so that even if you turn your back on getting educated maybe someone else will learn.


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Cece
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Ginag

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Reply with quote  #50 
Go Cece go...great post!!!
Gina
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