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Crossroads

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Reply with quote  #1 
I have to admit to being quite surprised by the actual numbers with regard to Cystinuria.  I was surprised by the low number of Mastiffs being tested.  I was surprised by the low number attached to the amount of money dedicated to the research.  I was surprised by the high number attached to the amount of money required to continue research.  My surprise at the facts led me to wonder about other numbers.....

-Does the veterinary community have a data bank of sorts that keeps track of identified cases etc?
-How many Mastiffs have actually been diagnosed with Cystinuria?
-How many have actually developed symptoms?
-How many have required surgery?
-How many have required drug therapy?
-How many have died or been euthanized as a result of the disease?

I will probably think of more questions and I hope others will add their own questions to this thread.  Knowledge is power after all. 

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Jennifer Patterson
Crossroads Mastiffs
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"Only two defining forces have ever offered to die for you, Jesus Christ and the American GI....one died for your soul, the other died for your freedom"
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steveoifer

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Reply with quote  #2 
Knowledge is power and unfortunately the data that you've asked for does not exist! {edit}...missed your first question and responded only to the "hows". http://mastiff.org/health/cystine.htm

At best, we can perhaps retrieve old numbers of "known" positives, but we cannot determine how many Mastiffs have had cyst. from present information.

Perhaps only 10% of affected males develop symptoms and the severity can vary.

Death from cyst. is not common, but not uncommon in dogs that form larger stones.

The issue is the spread of this genetic disease.

The clarion horn has sounded and if we do nothing at this juncture, then the entire Mastiff population may inherit this genetic problem.

When that happens, your numbers willl skyrocket and multiple deaths will not be a rarity!

The time to act is NOW!!!

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For the betterment of the breed

"Above all, a uniform type should be aimed at by breeders and uniformity of type can only exist in a proportionate ratio in the purity and distinctiveness in any breed"!.........M. Moore
"If breeds did not adhere to a specific shape, form, and colour range, or if breeders disregarded this blueprint, the breed would degenerate to the point that it would hardly resemble the breed at all. Selective breeding does not just create breeds- it preserves them as well." Breeding purebred dogs inherently means accepting limitations on your freedom to just breed anything...Catherine McMillan
" A reinforced consolidation of the American and British standards could be the basis for restoring our breed to the gladiatorial glory of its ancient past, in capability if not in usage".....Norman Howard Carp-Gordon
"I can live with doubt, or not knowing, rather than to have answers that might be wrong"...Richard Feynman
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Darkmstf

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Reply with quote  #3 
Q:  Does the veterinary community have a data bank of sorts that keeps track of identified cases etc?

A.  Upenn keeps a database of tested dogs (both positive and negative) but to my knowledge there is no other database. 

Q.  How many Mastiffs have actually been diagnosed with Cystinuria?

A.  Mastiff Club of America website lists the *stats* (not sure if they updated it yet tho).  But these are #s based on UPenn's information. There are many other dogs who are diagnosed positive that may not be in the UPenn database (i.e., needed surgery and were diagnosed with cystinuria that way).


Q.  How many have actually developed symptoms?

A.  Unknown. 

Q.  How many have required surgery?

A.   Unknown.

Q.  How many have required drug therapy?

A.  All stone formers are usually put on drug therapy (if a scrotal urethostomy isn't performed).  Non stone formers may not need to ever go on drugs. All depends.  A "positive" diagnosis via nitroprusside test doesn't mean dog will go on to form stones.

Q.  How many have died or been euthanized as a result of the disease?

A.  Unknown.

If you're not a member of the caninecystinuria@yahoogroups.com, may want to join and read up/see if you can decipher any stats there. It's a multi-breed list tho -- not just mastiffs.



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Darkside Mastiffs
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HarmonyMastiffs

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Reply with quote  #4 
Its very interesting that you made this post Jennifer.  I don't have the exact questions, but many regarding this headline in the mastiff community.

Currently,  I will not breed to  a stud who is not tested, I test all males used for mating that live in my home.  Does this make me and my line immune - nope - nasty disease but I'm doing the best I can with what is out there.  I will not bring in a pup from outside my line without testing of both the sire of the pup and sire of the dam that whelped the pup. 

There are many AWESOME stud dogs that so add to the breed who are not tested, whose owners say they have generations of clear dogs and no problems, therefore do not test, etc.,  Some are offended by the mere mention of C testing.

What truly does a breeder do when they request a test on a well known and proven stud before they wish to breed and are given the proverbial "finger" with the words "generations of clear dogs...etc." and never mind, I don't want to breed to you because you are questioning me???


Now has the baby been thrown out with the bathwater because now that hopeful bitch owner who planned/dreamed of using a fabulous stud who is not and will not be C tested is no longer available?   I have to wonder.... how much of an issue is this C and how many folks are avoiding and breeding anyway and how many folks are holding steadfast to the testing and breedings suffering due to lack of testing of fabulous studs?

Curious!


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Monica Coyle
Harmony Mastiffs
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Crossroads

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Reply with quote  #5 
This whole Cystinuria thing really bothers me Monica.  I do, of course, test my males.  Each of the three tested negative in March.  Forrest and JEB had just turned one and from what I understand negative doesn't mean negative (especially when they're young).  Buford has been negative twice now.  None of my boys have been used for any breeding at all, but it is something I think about and I would like to keep my options open.  Greiner Hall Brutus, who I just bred to, was tested and passed in October 2008 (I think he was 5 or 6 at the time).  Who knows when you can be completely confident that you're not dealing with it.  Kearny, because she is a female, tested negative just before her first litter, but she is limited to two female siblings so not a whole lot could be revealed there.  If bitches can be silent carriers and negative doesn't mean negative what are we to do????  I realize the short answer is research and find the genetic markers, but what do we do in the mean time??? 

Breeding Mastiffs sort of feels like running the gauntlet to me.  It's a constant dodging of issues.....health, temperament, conformation, lies, assumptions, rumors, etc., etc. 

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Jennifer Patterson
Crossroads Mastiffs
http://www.crossroadsmastiffs.com

"Only two defining forces have ever offered to die for you, Jesus Christ and the American GI....one died for your soul, the other died for your freedom"
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steveoifer

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Reply with quote  #6 
There is a more decisive test for males that costs approx. $150. Well worth it in my view, as it will show more substances that are indicative of cystinuria.

"Running the gauntlet" is because some breeders don't recognize the impact that this issue will cause over a short period of time, if dogs are not tested.

I've been asked how a mandatory policy could be enacted and how it would be policed!

My answer to that, is mandate first and by doing that, it places EVERYONE in Mastiffs on notice that testing is not just an option at ones discretion!

We don't "police" every person who doesn't wear a seat belt, yet the mandate has reduced fatalities & injuries.

We have mandated policies after 9-11, such as passports needed to leave our country and photo drivers licenses etc. Not everyone may have complied, but it is a law nonetheless!

We can't, or shouldn't negate a mandate all because it may be difficult to enforce.

Perhaps Moses would have never delivered the Ten Commandments, had he thought as some Mastiff fanciers think!



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For the betterment of the breed

"Above all, a uniform type should be aimed at by breeders and uniformity of type can only exist in a proportionate ratio in the purity and distinctiveness in any breed"!.........M. Moore
"If breeds did not adhere to a specific shape, form, and colour range, or if breeders disregarded this blueprint, the breed would degenerate to the point that it would hardly resemble the breed at all. Selective breeding does not just create breeds- it preserves them as well." Breeding purebred dogs inherently means accepting limitations on your freedom to just breed anything...Catherine McMillan
" A reinforced consolidation of the American and British standards could be the basis for restoring our breed to the gladiatorial glory of its ancient past, in capability if not in usage".....Norman Howard Carp-Gordon
"I can live with doubt, or not knowing, rather than to have answers that might be wrong"...Richard Feynman
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HarmonyMastiffs

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Reply with quote  #7 
I fully agree with you Jennifer on all points!!!  So hard.

Steve, there are many well established breeders with wonderful contributing studs/pedigrees that are not testing and are offended if asked to test.  What now?  People still breed to those dogs and have gorgeous litters and go on to breed the offspring.  The few that are standing steadfast on their testing requirements are missing out on the contribution of these studs.  Breeders say they know their lines that have been around for a long time...hence they feel they do not need to test.  When this happens it really makes the pool of studs smaller for those that do require a tested stud and that's a problem.

On the bitch side of things, I truly believe that more C is passed thru the bitches that are carriers.  Obviously, it has to originally come from the male but the female spreads it thicker than the male and there is no way to know if the female is a carrier.

I am actually very glad I am new and just starting at all this because I would be horrified to have a 10-20+ year old line that I am now being required to test and could be completely wiped out.  I don't think its fair to mandate.  Breeders need to find their way.

And - why was Cystinuria not the weekly headline 5 years ago?  Why now? 


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Monica Coyle
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steveoifer

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Reply with quote  #8 
Cystinuria education is what most fanciers lack.

They hold on to old views and discount the present state of affairs.

These same individuals would be the first to express their concerns once the general gene pool gets affected.

Who would want to buy a Mastiff when the whole population would be affected?

When Mastiffs start dying in larger numbers, or coming down with severe symptoms in larger numbers, who will wish to buy a Mastiff then?

Short term thinking has always been the downfall in any breed and the researchers have told me that the spread of cystinuria will rise if left unchecked.

So we either bite the bullet now, or wait until the inevitable bites the bullet for us, but by then, the issue could be so invasive that ALL Mastiffs would be subject to removal from breeding programs!

We are not working on a cure!

I repeat, the DNA test once discovered would not cure cystinuria!

At best, it would detect those that are carriers and it would then be up to the individual breeders to breed around the genetic defect.

This can be done now in males through testing and re-testing.

If there is a stud that you like, but hasn't been tested and won't get tested, use that studs son! You can then have that dog tested and males don't pass the defect on to their male get. So there are alternatives if you want to breed to a certain line.

We all need to have responsible breeding practices at play until a DNA test is found and there should be no excuses, or rationalizations, for any other selfish mindset!



__________________
For the betterment of the breed

"Above all, a uniform type should be aimed at by breeders and uniformity of type can only exist in a proportionate ratio in the purity and distinctiveness in any breed"!.........M. Moore
"If breeds did not adhere to a specific shape, form, and colour range, or if breeders disregarded this blueprint, the breed would degenerate to the point that it would hardly resemble the breed at all. Selective breeding does not just create breeds- it preserves them as well." Breeding purebred dogs inherently means accepting limitations on your freedom to just breed anything...Catherine McMillan
" A reinforced consolidation of the American and British standards could be the basis for restoring our breed to the gladiatorial glory of its ancient past, in capability if not in usage".....Norman Howard Carp-Gordon
"I can live with doubt, or not knowing, rather than to have answers that might be wrong"...Richard Feynman
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Comstock

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Reply with quote  #9 
Hello,

Being a breeder or a stud dog owner is not for the faint of heart.  No one was talking about PRA in the late 80's and early 90's, though the signs were there.  It took widespread blindness in our breed for everyone to decide enough is enough.  I would hope that all breeders would have learned a lesson.  Perhaps a health problem needs to reach the *tipping* point before the Mastiff community comes together to solve what could be a health crisis for our breed. 

As a breeder I could easily take a pass on an untested stud dog knowing that getting rid of Cystinuria in my dogs could take years.  We were very, very lucky that PRA was dominant--don't breed blind dogs and you won't get blind dogs.  We are not that lucky this time around and IMO those willing to breed to an untested dog because of looks or success in the show ring, do not have their priorities right.  Yes, we should be breeding for the betterment of the breed.  But, first of all we are protectors of this breed.

Many that are new to this breed have never lived with a blind dog.  I have had 5 PRA dogs, two I bred (affected stud dog) and three were Rescues I adopted...dogs that no one else wanted.  We lost Honey 2 weeks ago and I hope I have owned my last blind dog.  There is not a ribbon, trophy or award worth having if your pet lives in darkness or in pain.

I wish those that are currently living with Cystinuria dogs that have needed surgery or medicine to live in some semblance of comfort would share a bit so Cystinuria would no longer be an abstract topic to the rest of us.  Perhaps if we all shared some of that pain there would be less debate about breeding to untested dogs. 

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Caroline Tobin
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steveoifer

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Reply with quote  #10 


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For the betterment of the breed

"Above all, a uniform type should be aimed at by breeders and uniformity of type can only exist in a proportionate ratio in the purity and distinctiveness in any breed"!.........M. Moore
"If breeds did not adhere to a specific shape, form, and colour range, or if breeders disregarded this blueprint, the breed would degenerate to the point that it would hardly resemble the breed at all. Selective breeding does not just create breeds- it preserves them as well." Breeding purebred dogs inherently means accepting limitations on your freedom to just breed anything...Catherine McMillan
" A reinforced consolidation of the American and British standards could be the basis for restoring our breed to the gladiatorial glory of its ancient past, in capability if not in usage".....Norman Howard Carp-Gordon
"I can live with doubt, or not knowing, rather than to have answers that might be wrong"...Richard Feynman
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SherryR

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Reply with quote  #11 
Carorline I could not have said it better.

When considering that "special" stud dog as it was put who's breeder does not test ask yourself this..what if the puppy you keep or worse yet the puppy you sell an unsuspecting family turns up with a termail case of C.  That phone call will come and you will think of the children who will lose their pet and the needless suffering that animal will go through all because the stud dog was thought to be a contribution to the breed and you the breeder to the risk and hoped for the best

Personally I believe there is not one Mastiff worth contributing to the breed that could ever possibly justify that risk.

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Sherry Roberts

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Boomersmom

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Reply with quote  #12 
Caroline -

You are right - unless someone has undergone the pain and agony associated with a dog with cystinuria they cannot really relate to the total impact of this horrible disease. I have a dog with cystinuria - he has undergone 4 surgeries - I would not wish this disease on my worst enemy - let alone his dog!

We sent a urine sample to UPenn to test our boy for cystinuria - a routine test as far as I was concerned. Before the test results came back, he had a problem urinating. We took him to our vet - they took a urine sample and xrayed him - the xrays showed many stones in his bladder. I asked the vet if this could be cystinuria - he looked at me like I had two or three heads - then said he had never seen a dog with cystinuria. They sent the urine sample to our local lab and it came back positive for cystine crystals. A week later the UPenn test came back positive also.

Surgery was necessary to remove the blockage in his urethra. Wanting to go through the surgery only once, I asked our vet to bring in a board certified surgeon from Sacramento, which he did. The surgery was performed and we were told everything was okay. They removed over 100 stones from his bladder.

When I asked who would be staying with him that night, our vet said no one stays - they leave the surgical patients alone in the hospital at night. Not good enough for me so we loaded him into our motor home (easier on him than putting him in a car) and took him home. I slept on the living room floor next to him that night with my arm around him - woke up about 1:00 a.m. feeling warm fluid on my arm. His incision had broken open and he was bleeding heavily. Didn't think he would make it to the emergency vet 25 miles away so we did "heavy duty" first aid - applying pressure and finally got the bleeding stopped. No sympathy from the vet the next day - he said we shouldn't have taken him home in the first place.

Started looking for other vets in our area - in the meantime we noticed a swelling in the abdominal area - which kept getting worse each day. Finally decided on a relatively new vet in the area (and he is still our vet and probably will be forever). Turns out the "board certified surgeon" I had insisted on botched the surgery and urine was leaking from the bladder into the abdomen causing the swelling. So - another surgery to fix the first surgery.

Years of special diets (absolutely nothing related to poultry), daily testing of his urine - I got to the point where I could actually smell the beginning of a urinary tract infection before it showed up in a lab test! Still - the stones formed again and another surgery was scheduled. Surgery went okay - then, for whatever reason, his kidneys shut down. His only hope was to take him to U.C. Davis and pray for a miracle. He was in extremely bad shape - we had to stop and fill the gas tank before we left town - I took pictures of him laying in the car because I just knew those were the last pictures I would ever take of him.

We drove over 80 miles an hour in rush hour traffic - weaving in and out and managed to get him there still alive. We were there several hours while he underwent multiple tests. The doctors told us to go home because it would be a while before he underwent surgery - they had to prep him, get the donors ready for blood transfusions - and perform more tests. They called us about 11:00 that night - he was in surgery - they needed to know if they could have permission to neuter him so that they could perform a scrotal urethrostomy which is the best way to deal with this. We, of course, granted permission. They called at approximately 3:30 a.m. - he made it through the surgery and they would keep us posted.  

He was at Davis for 6 days - the surgery was a success. But - there is not a day that goes by that we don't watch him carefully for any signs of a blockage - even though with this surgery there shouldn't be any. But you just cannot relax after going through this. I carry a copy of his medical records with me everywhere we take him just "in case!"

And, if your dog going through this agony is not enough - let alone the emotional distress you go through - think about the money. The first botched surgery was over $1,200, the second surgery to repair the first surgery was almost $900, the third surgery here at our vet was over $2,000, and the surgery at U.C. Davis was over $6,000. Not that I wouldn't spend that much again to save him - but there are many people who couldn't afford to do that.

If you have a dog that forms cystine stones, please do the scrotal urethrostomy - no matter what your vet advises. If I had known about it when we first found out he had cystinuria, I am sure it would have saved him a lot of suffering.




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Comstock

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Reply with quote  #13 
Dear Rosemary,

I am so sorry for all you and your boy have endured and I thank you for sharing with the rest of the Mastiff community.  If what you have written doesn't convince people to test their dogs and think long and hard about breeding to untested dogs, nothing will.

The fact that you sought the best medical help from the very beginning didn't protect either you or your dog from repeated surgeries or huge vet bills.  Not many owners could or would have continued to seek a solution given the emotional and financial toll each emergency brought with it.

Years ago I read in the AKC Gazette an interview with a breeder...I don't remember who or the breed (not Mastiffs), but when he was asked what he had hoped to accomplish with his breeding program, his answer was *first of all, do no harm to my breed.*  Wise words indeed.

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Caroline Tobin
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cariston

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Reply with quote  #14 
As far as cystinuria goes, would it be too much to ask if people who had money from litters started donating 1/4 - 1/2  $$ to research towards finding a test that tests for carriers, like in newfies??


Maybe cystinuria could create an application or funding type  papers for breeders who choose to donate a certain portion from their earnings from litters to genetic diseases including cystinuria for something in return such as free testing for the pups in those litters that their owner/breeder put money towards back into those pups???   Like, you get free cystinuria testing for donating up to half of the proceeds from the litter earnings to cystinuria research until a genetic marker is found and dogs AND bitches can start being tested as being a carrier or not and not only testing to see if cystine is present.. That would be pretty awesome!!!!!!  




Cariston


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fosdick

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Reply with quote  #15 
This weekend we had a wedding here at the lodge, and of corce all family pets are welcome here. The bride and groom do resque and one of their dogs a lab mix has this. he just has such a hard time, he was in so much pain he shook. He was fine the day before. We are in a  remote part of Alaska and there are no vets here.

He had surgery, and 6,000.00 in vet bills, and is only two yrs old. They feed him a low protrin food and do everything they can for him. we found him some remidil (sp?) and he did well for the rest of the weekend. But still was not like a normal dog. It was so very sad to see the heart break this has caused this famiy as this dog is a member of theirs.

It was my understanding that there is a test for this.



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Mabel Wimmer
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steveoifer

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Reply with quote  #16 
While we debate the issue of where funds should go, either to a regular account, or first establing a 501, no money gets generated!!!

We can trap the funds NOW and then put them into the 501 at a later point in time. Is it totally legal? I haven't asked yet, but I wouldn't be concerned if somewhere on the check you write "for cystinuria research".

We're not dealing with millions of dollars and small contributions never get questioned!

So if you still want me to hold the money until a 501 is established, send it to:

Steve Oifer
14 Marseille Terrace
Morganville, N.J. 07751

Make checks out to my name... and on the lower corner, or back, just state.... "for cyst. research".

__________________
For the betterment of the breed

"Above all, a uniform type should be aimed at by breeders and uniformity of type can only exist in a proportionate ratio in the purity and distinctiveness in any breed"!.........M. Moore
"If breeds did not adhere to a specific shape, form, and colour range, or if breeders disregarded this blueprint, the breed would degenerate to the point that it would hardly resemble the breed at all. Selective breeding does not just create breeds- it preserves them as well." Breeding purebred dogs inherently means accepting limitations on your freedom to just breed anything...Catherine McMillan
" A reinforced consolidation of the American and British standards could be the basis for restoring our breed to the gladiatorial glory of its ancient past, in capability if not in usage".....Norman Howard Carp-Gordon
"I can live with doubt, or not knowing, rather than to have answers that might be wrong"...Richard Feynman
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Darkmstf

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Reply with quote  #17 
YES!! Please folks... if anything else you get from these cystinuria threads, IF you have a male who produces stones, who blocks, do NOT hesitate to go for the scrotal urethrostomy!!!   If your vet has no experience in it, doesn't know what it is/hasn't done it, find one who does...  
 
Boomersmom, so very sorry your boy went through all of that... my heart broke reading it...
 
 
"If you have a dog that forms cystine stones, please do the scrotal urethrostomy - no matter what your vet advises. If I had known about it when we first found out he had cystinuria, I am sure it would have saved him a lot of suffering."


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Lisa Edwards-Filu
Darkside Mastiffs
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fosdick

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Reply with quote  #18 
http://mastiff.org/health/cystine.htm

http://www.offa.org/stats.html#breed

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Mabel Wimmer
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Highlander

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Reply with quote  #19 
Sorry, I will continue to send it my money to Danny's Fund....I do not know Steve from Adam and writing a check to Steve, does not guarantee it will get there...I have worked Fraud for too many years to just blindly send money to someone. You want to do this, set up a Charitable Contribution Fund and have it deposited there.

Sorry to sound like a Bitch, but there is too much fraud going on...

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Highlander

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Reply with quote  #20 

Also, for Steve to protect himself....


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Steph
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heddi244

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Reply with quote  #21 

Steve, Go to the IRS site and request and EIN (employer identification number), file a non-profit corp (you can get it online) and request your 501-C3 letter, the everyone is covered.


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steveoifer

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Reply with quote  #22 
In order to satisfy Steph and her suspicions, I formally decline to get involved in the holding of any funds.

I don't need any doubts of my integrity to be questioned, all because Steph and perhaps others, might feel that I have some ulterior motive.

This is why forward movement gets derailed in this thing of ours.

I've been a long time advocate of Mastiff improvements and the last thing I need, is someone making it seem as though I just came on the scene out of the blue, looking to potentially defraud people out of their contributions!

Incredible!


__________________
For the betterment of the breed

"Above all, a uniform type should be aimed at by breeders and uniformity of type can only exist in a proportionate ratio in the purity and distinctiveness in any breed"!.........M. Moore
"If breeds did not adhere to a specific shape, form, and colour range, or if breeders disregarded this blueprint, the breed would degenerate to the point that it would hardly resemble the breed at all. Selective breeding does not just create breeds- it preserves them as well." Breeding purebred dogs inherently means accepting limitations on your freedom to just breed anything...Catherine McMillan
" A reinforced consolidation of the American and British standards could be the basis for restoring our breed to the gladiatorial glory of its ancient past, in capability if not in usage".....Norman Howard Carp-Gordon
"I can live with doubt, or not knowing, rather than to have answers that might be wrong"...Richard Feynman
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Crossroads

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Reply with quote  #23 

Quote:

Sorry, I will continue to send it my money to Danny's Fund....I do not know Steve from Adam and writing a check to Steve, does not guarantee it will get there...I have worked Fraud for too many years to just blindly send money to someone. You want to do this, set up a Charitable Contribution Fund and have it deposited there.

Sorry to sound like a Bitch, but there is too much fraud going on...




That is unbelievably insulting and rude! Not to mention ignorant, ill informed and mean spirited.  As if setting up a charitable trust account would prevent anybody from committing fraud.  With that scenario you would have even more fingers in the till.  I was thinking how incredibly brave (and possibly self destructive) Steve was being by making himself the one and only person with access to the funds.  Furthermore, Steve is a smart enough business man to know that donors would want to make their donations tax deductible.  In order to do that you have to follow certain guidelines.  Honestly Stephanie!  I guess I can at least give you credit for showing your ass before he even got started.  I suppose you could have waited and pointed a finger later.  I still think you're beyond rude and you owe him an apology. 


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Jennifer Patterson
Crossroads Mastiffs
http://www.crossroadsmastiffs.com

"Only two defining forces have ever offered to die for you, Jesus Christ and the American GI....one died for your soul, the other died for your freedom"
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margelutz

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Reply with quote  #24 
That is unbelievably insulting and rude! Not to mention ignorant, ill informed and mean spirited.  As if setting up a charitable trust account would prevent anybody from committing fraud.  With that scenario you would have even more fingers in the till.  I was thinking how incredibly brave (and possibly self destructive) Steve was being by making himself the one and only person with access to the funds.  Furthermore, Steve is a smart enough business man to know that donors would want to make their donations tax deductible.  In order to do that you have to follow certain guidelines.  Honestly Stephanie!  I guess I can at least give you credit for showing your ass before he even got started.  I suppose you could have waited and pointed a finger later.  I still think you're beyond rude and you owe him an apology.

HI I agree with this ,  Steve stepped up to the plate here .
he didn't have to ,and just how much money do you think will be given ?

I'm sure not enough to , give Steve an island some where :>)

He is doing something ,that no one else has tried to do .

He found out more info ,with Money out of His own pocket .
From Geiger ,also offering to pay for testing ,on Cystinuria ,

If someone couldn't afford it , I would send my Money to him ,when ever he figures out how to do this .

At least whatever is donated ,would go straight to Mastiffs .

Not too every other breed out there , Steve is doing ,this for the Mastiffs ,so that they get full funding ,from our donations .

We should be saying Thank You ! that he wants to take the time ,and His own out of pocket money to help ,find the Gene to this ugly genetic nightmare .


Shame on you .
Marge

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lutz96@windstream.net
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Highlander

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Reply with quote  #25 
Sorry not insulting or rude....and Jennifer name calling tells me alot. A Realist when it comes to money and Charities..You need to setup a Charitable Trust Foundation directed for Cystinura. The OEMFT got started this way and they started the Foundation and look where they are now. You need to go to the IRS, talk to an Attorney and do it right, if you are going to do it. That way no one will be at risk. I am sure Steve knows how or can find out how to setup a Foundation.

Contact dee Anderson, she can give you direction...

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Steph
"The superior man is modest in his speech but excels in his actions" Confucius
"Leadership is based on inspiration, not domination; on cooperation not intimidation. - William Arthur Wood

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