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Reply with quote  #76 
A neo owner would said they own a neo...the french would have said dogue. These breed owners are very clear when they discuss what type of dog they have. The Mastiff (capital - proper name) is a breed unto itself.

I clicked on a random breeder's site---looks like you have to straighten out a few people about their poochies.. Sorry the picture did not convey b/c it is truly an amazing looking dog.
 
 
 

Basalt Canyon Kennels

 

Neapolitan Mastiff Fanciers


An ancient breed, the Neapolitan Mastiff is a heavy-boned, massive, awe-inspiring dog bred for use as a guard.  They are a very intuitive defender of owner and property. They are neither as active nor energetic as some other guardian breeds, but are extremely intelligent dogs.  While conserving energy for the appropriate situations, their lightning-fast reflexes, fierce personality and intimidating stature are employed to protect its master and property.  They are characterized by loose skin, over their entire body, an abundance of hanging wrinkles and folds on the head and a voluminous dewlap. The essence of the Neapolitan is their bestial appearance, astounding head and imposing size and attitude. Due to his massive structure, his characteristic movement is rolling and lumbering, not elegant or showy.

So, listen--I read various forums because there is wisdom in the consul of many.  I have no hidden agenda , but, have to say when I think something is a misconception.  I have big dogs, you have big dogs and, let's face it wether you have an Irish Wolfhound,  Great Dane, EM or AM, we all face the same issues of breed prejudice.  The power of the internet is amazing.  We should use it to benefit each other--not challenge each other. I am sure if our dogs met while out on a walk, they'd sniff butts and that would probably be it.  Where is Rodney King?  Why can't we all just get along???  (Again--rhetorical here...)
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mariaruoto

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Reply with quote  #77 

I must be missing your point, Barb. Nowhere in that copy does the breeder call their dogs "Mastiffs". They call them Neopolitan Mastiffs or Neopolitans.


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rainydaysmastiffs

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Reply with quote  #78 
Barb,
There is only one MASTIFF. Look in any reputable registry, ie, American Kennel Club, Canadian Kennel Club, other country Kennel Clubs.

There are a few of "fill in the blank" mastiffs, ie Tibetan, Neopolitan, Bullmastiffs.

There are quite a few mollossers of similiar type: Dogue de Bordeaux, Cane Corso, Presa Canario, Fila Brasilerio, Argentino Dogo, Boer Boel, etc... 

I don't even know why you are here?  You are not here to add anything of value to this board other than arguments.  You have not proven anything, have set your mind to dissuade all of us from our train of thought without bringing anything of value to back it up.  You do not come to say "gee, I love my "xx" and he is wonderful and let me tell you about the wonderful day we've had today.  You seem to have come only to bicker.  And just because there are AM's in the house doesn't mean squat! 

I have a Pug in the house.  So???








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redheads

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Reply with quote  #79 

,Still waiting for rescue contact information???

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Nicci

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Reply with quote  #80 
This is a quote from the wikipedia site for American Mastiffs


<<<<<<
The new breed looks exactly like a English Mastiff, but without the excessive drooling that is common in the English Mastiff. This American Mastiff loves children and are devoted to their families. These are loyal and calm dogs. They are generally non-aggressive except when their family is threatened. In those instances they become fierce and courageous guard dogs. American Mastiffs generally weigh between 150 and 250 pounds (70 to 110 kg).>>>>>

How is that not misleading to a newbie wanting info on the breed?   This is one of the things that Mastiff breeders and owners complain about.  "Looks exactly like a English Mastiff...puff (disgust!)!

And who posted this info on wikipedia you ask.......http://www.americanmastiff.org/

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Reply with quote  #81 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mariaruoto
There are a multitude of purebred companion/watch dogs available, as well as rescue at the shelter - no need for a "new" breed.


I think what everyone has been dancing around here is basicly this... http://www.yourpurebredpuppy.com/reviews/mastiffs.html

The breed has a lot of problems that can't be fixed as long as anyone who can produce an AKC registration fee is allowed to breed at will.

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Nicci

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Reply with quote  #82 
I love this link from that Purebred Puppy site.  I bet breeders are more than willing to argue that pedigrees tell more than this!

"But what about a pedigree? Doesn't that mean something?"

Send more money, and the AKC will access their database again. It will spit out the names of your puppy's parents, grandparents, great-grandparents, as many generations as you're willing to pay for. Voila -- her pedigree. That's all a pedigree is -- a list of names.
AKC papers don't tell you how good a dog is.Registration papers and pedigrees don't tell you a single thing about a dog other than its place in the chain of names.




Should I buy a purebred puppy without a pedigree?"

I wouldn't. How will you find out whether your puppy's parents and grandparents were too closely related? Show breeders who have not kept up on canine genetics are still not aware of how unwise it is to breed together closely-related dogs. You'll see a lot of inbred and "linebred" puppies offered by show breeders.





There's this little quote from the site too.  She doesn't come off to bias does she?


Every year, thousands of AKC registered litters are produced. The majority of them are of poor quality -- because good quality would require the breeder to have some knowledge of genetics and to spend money on genetic health testing -- and most people who have litters know nothing about this and wouldn't be bothered doing it even if they did know.




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mariaruoto

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Reply with quote  #83 
LOL...now I'm really laughing.

Compare the weights that they posted on Wiki to the weights they have on their own site!!!! Do they even know what there "standard" is?
 Height/WeightHeight: 28-35 inches (65-89 cm.)
Weight: Males 160 to over 200 pounds (72-90 kg.) Females 140-180 pounds (63-81 kg.)

I guess tacking on that extra year is what is giving them the right to claim the longer lifespan (Mastiff 9-11)???

Life Expectancy About 10-12 years.



Now, why don't they state that Dysplasia is a potential health problem, ED, bloat, etc??? The health problems of both the Anatolian and the Mastiff become potential threats once they are mixed.

Health Problems  ?


Also from the "AM standard"
 
Quote:
  
Hind legs are wide and parallel


My God - I would hope they were - a dog with intersecting legs would have a heck of a time getting around!!!



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John_R

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Reply with quote  #84 
Nicci,

I don't know if your aware of this or not, but Wikipedia allows anyone to add information to their site. Perhaps it is time to add, as Paul Harvey would say, "the rest of the story" to Wikipedia's American Mastiff definition.

Just a thought.

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Nicci

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Reply with quote  #85 
My thoughts exactly John!!!  You know what they say about great minds...lol! 

But what I was trying to point out was the false info placed there by "AmericanMastiff.org".

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mariaruoto

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Reply with quote  #86 
Oh, but, Nicci...there is actually value in her statement...

Quote:
  Every year, thousands of AKC registered litters are produced. The majority of them are of poor quality -- because good quality would require the breeder to have some knowledge of genetics and to spend money on genetic health testing -- and most people who have litters know nothing about this and wouldn't be bothered doing it even if they did know.

 

 
Hey - I'm certainly not arguing that the AKC is perfect. It's unfortunate there hasn't been a solution to stopping the puppymills and backyard breeders who breeding. I know I, and the other breeders I know, seek out solutions and education people to these disgusting enterprises whenever we can.
 
 

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Nicci

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Reply with quote  #87 

LOL Maria... I didn't look at it that way...but you do have a point! Trying to use that site(purebredpuppy) as a reference for Mastiffs was ridiculous.  The only reason that site exists is to sell her books. 


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Reply with quote  #88 
Professors in college told us student's never to use wikipedia as a source of info unless it could be backed up at least 3 other reliable sources, I think you should post the rest of the story for the AM (American Mutt)!
 
                                                  Gemini

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Reply with quote  #89 
From the AKC -

Tibetan MASTIFF- The Tibetan Mastiff is a highly intelligent, independent, strong willed and rather reserved dog. He is aloof with strangers and highly protective of his charges and his property. Named for country/region of origin


Neapolitan MASTIFF- The Neapolitan Mastiff is steady and loyal to his owner, not aggressive or apt to bite without reason. As a protector of his property and owners, he is always watchful and does not relish intrusion by strangers into his personal space. Name for the city/region of origin

From the Kennel Club (UK)

Pyrenean MASTIFF- no current breed standard
Named for region of origin


Froim the FCI

Spanish MASTIFF
Majorca MASTIFF
Alentejo MASTIFF

I assume that you are giving the same attention to all of these breeds using the term mastiff as part of their name.

Now having been a little snide I will say that I have been using oudated terminology. I have been referring to your dogs as English Mastiff and indeed it should be just Mastiff. I apologise for that misuse and will correct my usage from now on.

BTW- I speak only for myself as one dedicated breeder. What I do is what I do not what the AMBC recommends as opposed to requires for approval to be a breeder. Teh AMBC is in the process of establishing a website with additional breed information in the near future.

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mariaruoto

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Reply with quote  #90 
Quote:
I assume that you are giving the same attention to all of these breeds using the term mastiff as part of their name. 


These breeds do not compare themselves to the Mastiff. They have their own standard that they follow. They have their own function. Responsible breeders of these dogs do health testing. They are recognized by the AKC and can prove their dogs to their standard in a showring. The "AM" has none of this and constantly uses the Mastiff as a crutch - "just like the Mastiff, very similar to the Mastiff".

They also never refer to themselves as Mastiffs, as I have seen "AM" people refer to their dogs - both pet and breeder - just look at some of the "AM" breeder sites.

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Reply with quote  #91 
You keep talking about how you are educating the public about the breed.

May I ask how you are doing this because when I was first looking at Mastiffs to try to purchase one I couldn’t get anyone to talk to me? I asked many different breeders for references and I couldn’t get any, some because it was their first litter.

I asked some of these same people for their dog’s pedigrees thinking that I could do the background research on my own and I couldn’t get that from several of them…they didn’t have one. And the few that I did get had produced dogs that had some major health problems and I wouldn’t want to purchase one of those puppies and I gave up and went elsewhere.

So what is a person who wants a healthy/stable Mastiff supposed to do? The only reason that I knew how to get this information was because I had been involved with dogs for well over 20 years. If I had been a 20 something year-old looking for my first family dog I would have had no idea where to turn and more likely than not I would have ended up with one of the BYB Mastiffs and as you well know that’s a total crap shoot.
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mariaruoto

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Reply with quote  #92 
I just took a good look at the websites belonging to the "approved" "AM" breeders.

They are wonderful examples how the "AMs" use the Mastiff as a crutch.

"Is the Mastiff the right breed for you?" Is one header I found - Why does it matter to these "AM" breeders - they don't breed Mastiffs. Also note their address is xxxxxMASTIFFS .com

XXXXXX X Mastiffs - Are they a Mastiff breeder? NOPE..."AM" but their name doesn't convey that.
 
I also found the history of the Mastiff posted on some of their sites - WHY? Why not the history of the "AM" - perhaps because there is no history - no reason the breed came to be other than greed? That should be replaced with the foundation of your mix - Oh - that's right - nobody has any information on that.
 


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Reply with quote  #93 
I don't even know why you are here?  You are not here to add anything of value to this board other than arguments.  You have not proven anything, have set your mind to dissuade all of us from our train of thought without bringing anything of value to back it up.  You do not come to say "gee, I love my "xx" and he is wonderful and let me tell you about the wonderful day we've had today.  You seem to have come only to bicker.  And just because there are AM's in the house doesn't mean squat! 

But I DID, I DID!  Didn't I post that I just read these threads for info, but, when I see something that is contrary to my experience--I have to write about it.  My first post was about my wonderful dogs.  I have only posted after that because of questions on your part. Please don't be defensive-it is not my intent to attack.  That is the trouble with text, isn't it??  (That and people have selective reading.)I am not bickering--I am not an antagonist  and love to see people(and dogs!) come together. I actually have a smile on my face and am having a wonderful blustery fall day with my dogs.  Again, did not intend to post more than once, just responding to some of the things that were said to me.  Please receive anything I have posted in that spirit.   
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Reply with quote  #94 
BETTY R WROTE:
 
Code:
 May I ask how you are doing this because when I was first looking at Mastiffs to try to purchase one I couldn’t get anyone to talk to me? I asked many different breeders for references and I couldn’t get any, some because it was their first litter. 

 
Ah so now the truth comes out.
You say what you wanted was a REAL mastiff and nobody would sell you one. So you settled for an inferior hybrid th AM. 
YOu obviously didn't do your homework or look far because there are plenty of quality mastiff litters listed all over the country at any given time.
Did you ever stop and wonder was it perhaps your application wasn't up to snuff?



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Reply with quote  #95 
Quote:
As far as the Mastiff world being quite small-please- I am trying not to make this sound hostile, just a suggestion-maybe you should get out more often.  Maybe YOUR mastiff world is quite small (that keeps it "safe" for you) but I see mastiff breeders, ads, dogs everywhere.  


Barb... you MUST be kidding me...  I've been involved with the Mastiff for 19 years now.  I've been out in PUBLIC with ALL OF MY MASTIFFS.  Before you open your mouth...  do a little bit of research.

Your profile lists 2 'mastiffs'.... I find this offensive to say the least!  Why didn't you list them as American Mastiffs?

This is a MASTIFF MESSAGE BOARD...  it most definitely IS NOT an American Mastiff Board.  Don't you all have one...  Oops...what am I saying... you don't even have a rescue service for your MUTTS!  If you don't care for what you read... LEAVE! 

Our Mastiff World is small in the sense that we all know each other...of each other...know the lines, etc..  But, since you are so involved you must have already figured this out.

I have to go out into the real world right now...  you know... leave my comfy coccoon...


Bes







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StergoMastiffs

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Reply with quote  #96 
GOOD POST EILEEN!  Good thing I had to click back for a second. 


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Reply with quote  #97 
Quote:
Originally Posted by EileenDurante
Ah so now the truth comes out.
You say what you wanted was a REAL mastiff and nobody would sell you one. So you settled for an inferior hybrid th AM.
YOu obviously didn't do your homework or look far because there are plenty of quality mastiff litters listed all over the country at any given time.
Did you ever stop and wonder was it perhaps your application wasn't up to snuff?


I asked a valid question I would appreciate a valid answer!
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Reply with quote  #98 
Quote:
  also found the history of the Mastiff posted on some of their sites - WHY? Why not the history of the "AM" - perhaps because there is no history - no reason the breed came to be other than greed? That should be replaced with the foundation of your mix - Oh - that's right - nobody has any information on that


Maria... isn't that called 'misleading the public'?  Aren't there laws against this?  After all, they are NOT promoting our breed, The Mastiff.  They are promoting their Mutt! 

I have yet to hear the real reason as to why this breed was 'created'.  I have yet to read their Standard.  I have yet to see an illustrated image of what the AM is suppose to look like... it sure isn't suppose to look like my breed...


Bes





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StergoMastiffs

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Reply with quote  #99 

I would love to hear the "breeders" you contacted... you can PM me if you would like, because I do NOT know one breeder on this forum that would have snubbed their nose at you.  NOT ONE!


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Reply with quote  #100 
Very nice! You should be proud of yourself. 
One more time for those of you in the cheap seats who may not have "heard" me the first time. I read these forums for information--- health, political, whatever.  I only post when I see something said  that is contrary to my experience or a blatant injustice against another poster.  We  all have big dogs and we face many of the same issues--especially pending legislations on local levels aimed at big dogs. (When we ALL know that irresponsible owners are to blame)   We can learn from each other and work together. 
You ask questions and then refute my responses which are from my personal experience.   I don't know why I am always amazed at the elitist snobbery that everything comes down to on this forum.  Please Moderator, PLEASE--do me a FAVOR and block me before I post again!!  :-)  I will get on now with my happy life with my 2 beautiful American Mastiffs.  Smile.  Take a breath.  I am sure it is more becomming on you!
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