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Reply with quote  #101 
Quote:
Originally Posted by StergoMastiffs
I would love to hear the "breeders" you contacted... you can PM me if you would like, because I do NOT know one breeder on this forum that would have snubbed their nose at you. NOT ONE!


Really? Then I'm assuming that EileenDurante and you are not breeders, because I certainly feel snubbed.

I asked a question and I still haven't gotten an answer. You keep talking about how you are educating the public about the breed. May I ask how you are doing this?

As for the breeders that I contacted over 5 years ago, I'm sorry to say that I didn't file that information because I never dreamt that I would have any use for it.

While you may be correct that any breeder on this forum would have talked to me, at that time I didn’t know that any such forums or even forums in general existed.

When the general public starts to look for a puppy to purchase finding a forum is not the first thing that pops into their mind. So now we are back to the same question how are the Mastiff people going about educating the general public to the pitfalls of buying a BYB puppy or even one of the Designer breeds that we have been talking about?
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clydeman

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Reply with quote  #102 
Quote: When the general public starts to look for a puppy to purchase finding a forum is not the first thing that pops into their mind. So now we are back to the same question how are the Mastiff people going about educating the general public to the pitfalls of buying a BYB puppy or even one of the Designer breeds that we have been talking about?
*****************
I agree that the public typically don't go to forums to find a mastiff.  They typically type in the Word mastiff on google or some other search engine and what they get is a lot of AM breeders pages.  Many of the AM web pages have Mastiff as part of their serch engine criteria.  My guess is to steal away prospective mastiff clients. 


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OsoBodacious

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Reply with quote  #103 
Quote:
You keep talking about how you are educating the public about the breed.

May I ask how you are doing this because when I was first looking at Mastiffs to try to purchase one I couldn’t get anyone to talk to me? I asked many different breeders for references and I couldn’t get any, some because it was their first litter.

I asked some of these same people for their dog’s pedigrees thinking that I could do the background research on my own and I couldn’t get that from several of them…they didn’t have one.


I am always willing to stop and talk about the breed to anybody who asks me questions (except maybe as I'm going in the ring to show).  I have people calling me, or contacting me through my website to ask questions about their own Mastiff, or the breed in general.  I always take time to answer them.

Through my local kennel club, I have participated in meet the breed days with my Mastiffs.  I have participated in bite prevention seminars with my Mastiffs.

I am constantly updating my website to add more information although it's a fledgling website, so for the most part, it's brags about my own dogs, but I am working on getting it to be more informative.  These are all different ways to educate.

I too would love to know what "many different" breeders you contacted, because I have contacted a number of breeders over the years and have found them to be friendly, helpful, and forthcoming.  Oh sure, it may have taken them a few days to answer an email, or return a call, especially if they have a litter on the ground, but they always responded eventually.

Personally, I don't know any reputable breeder who can't tell you who the parents of their dogs are!!!  Most can go back several generations by memory.  If a breeder doesn't have that info, I'd RUN anyway.  Even if it's the first litter, if they can't give references, again, I'd RUN.  I've never bred a litter, but I could give you references for myself and my dogs!!!!  And I could tell you who the parents are, and what lines they come from.

It's obvious from the comments you've made that whatever "many" breeders you approached were either not what I would consider reputable, you yourself did not meet their stringent standards to be a home for their puppies, or you approached them in entirely the wrong manner.

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Reply with quote  #104 
Barb,
You talk of learning from each other so why cant you read what is written and learn?

Grimes,
The use of big words is not making you sound like a better breeder. Your still breeding a mutt that is not recognized by any reputable keneel Club.

Why does no one, the AM people, answer the legit questions that have been asked?

As for what it meant when it was said, "dont use the name Fredrica or I will lose my breakfast." It simply means that the name Fredrica make him throw up his breakfast. Please warn me when you make a post like that because I spit soda all over my comp screen.

The bottom line is this: The AM people will never answer the legit questions asked because 1: They have no idea what the answer is. 2: They know that there is no legit answer so they choose to ignore these questions.
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shelleybelly

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Reply with quote  #105 
I wasn't going to get involved in this thread, BUT....I have to share my experience as a newbie Mastiff owner. I knew NOTHING about the breed when I started researching 3 years ago. I did exactly what clydeman stated in his reply..I searched Google for "mastiff" and " mastiff breeders" and so began my journey in learning about the breed and finding a reputable breeder.

I grew up knowing nothing about BYB, and we got our pets from the local petstores....that was my base of knowledge about how to find a good pet. BUT, as I researched on the web, and began emailing/contacting breeders, I started to notice quite a difference in the websites/info posted about the breeders themselves, health testing, pedigrees, how many litters produced in a year, club membership, and most importantly, the questions they asked of ME in return. In all this reading (which took over a year) I started to see the "light" and was able to narrow down my list of potential contacts...as a novice even I could begin to see the difference between a BYB who just wanted $$ "quality puppies for sale" and a reputable breeder who did not advertise their 'puppies' but rather their dogs and beliefs about breeding...

Betty, you keep asking how these breeders are educating the public?? Just take a look at any of their websites...I found a WEALTH of information on the breed itself regarding health, temperament, size, cost to house/feed/vet...how to look for a breeder, what questions to ask, advice to attend a local show to see the dogs and meet potential breeders...etc. Even if you just wanted a pet, they all stress how important it was to purchase from a reputable breeder who knows their dogs history/health problems/temperament, etc...

I have a feeling Eileen hit the nail on the head, your application may have had some red flags and that's why you didn't get any replies....QUALITY mastiff breeders are careful about who they place their dogs with, as they have had to deal w/rescues and poor homes too often over the years and know the breed is suffering enough from negative media coverage....

Just my newbie thoughts!

Shelley


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rainydaysmastiffs

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Reply with quote  #106 
I personally did a lot of breed research and discovered a lot of websites on Mastiffs before my initial purchase.  Even then, however, I bought from a byb after I had determined that the true Mastiff WAS the breed I was looking for to join my family.  It's not that she did not have quality behind her (a few generations back), but that the byb had not continued with the health testing and showing of his dogs before breeding AND really did not have the experience to do a breeding, ie, not doubling up on faults, critically analyzing his breeding stock to truly judge if they were breeder quality, etc. I learned quickly with the first and did not go back for a second.

Secondly, I see a lot of people going to dog shows and researching the breeds there.  I personally talk to a lot of people at dog shows in between classes and group times and usually because I have a very well mannered Micah or Lara or Gracie with me.  These people may decide to buy a true Mastiff or they may decide on a Bullmastiff or a Labrador, but not because they haven't gone out and did their research.

There are a lot of ways and means to find out information in this day and age and just as many ways to get duped if you're not cautious.




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Reply with quote  #107 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OsoBodacious
Through my local kennel club, I have participated in meet the breed days with my Mastiffs. I have participated in bite prevention seminars with my Mastiffs.

It's obvious to me that you are a reputable breeder and that you have the best interest of your breed at heart and I applaud your efforts to do what you can for your breed...but again the general public doesn't know that any of this exists. The closets most people get to a dog show is the television.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OsoBodacious
It's obvious from the comments you've made that whatever "many" breeders you approached were either not what I would consider reputable, you yourself did not meet their stringent standards to be a home for their puppies, or you approached them in entirely the wrong manner.


I think it's quite obvious that the breeders that I contacted were not reputable breeders. And you can look at my dogs and tell that jab you took at me is not true…my dogs are very well cared for.

I traveled by car for 4 hours to visit the home of one of the breeders I was looking at. She told me that she would choose the puppy for me that she felt suited my personality but she wouldn't allow me in the back to see the mother and the rest of the puppies because it would upset the mother to have a stranger around her puppies. I thought OK...it's time to leave.

I contacted another breeder that told me that she couldn't give out the names or numbers of people she had sold puppies to because it would be an invasion of their privacy. I told her that was fine I understood and I would leave my information with her and she could contact the people herself and ask them to give me a call. I never heard from anyone, which in her defense may not have been her fault.

I visited 2 breeders whose dogs wore bibs and drooled constantly, I just couldn’t live with that.

I visited one breeder whose mother dog would have ripped my face off if she could have gotten to me, the gentleman who owned and bred the dogs was quite proud of his “feisty little girl”.

I visited a breeder whose puppies wouldn’t come out from behind a large chair so I could look at them. When he finally dragged a couple of them out they screamed as though he was skinning them.

I contacted 2 breeders by phone and they were willing to send me the information I asked for but when I looked into the dog’s background I found some serious health issues.

These are the ones that I can recall off the top of my head, I’m really sorry that I don’t have names to go with these experiences. I didn’t keep the information and even if I had I probably wouldn’t be able to put the proper names with the experiences. My memory is just not what it used to be.





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mariaruoto

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Reply with quote  #108 
I respond to any and all applications of substance. By substance, I mean a completed application or a detailed email. I respond even if I don't have a litter planned and I offer my assistance in locating another responsible breeder.

I do not respond to emails simply saying: do you have puppies available, how much? Or emails of that general nature. I also do not respond to applications that are filled out "half-assed" - if you can't take the time to let me know about the environment you plan to keep my puppy in - you are not the type of home I want one of my puppies to be in.

Quote:
  You keep talking about how you are educating the public about the breed. May I ask how you are doing this?


I find a lot of my time at dog shows is spent educating people about the breed. I never refuse someone asking to meet one of my kids or asking me questions. I answer honestly - which sometimes leads to people saying, "Wow...I didn't know that - maybe this isn't the breed for me." And, that's if fine - in fact - that is GREAT - as far as I'm concerned that's one less dog that may up in rescue. I can't be all that money hungry if I'm willing to dissuade people from getting a Mastiff.

I can't count the hours I have spent on the phone with people that are trying to decide if the Mastiff is the right breed for them - again - answering millions of questions and having them over my house to meet the kids - EVEN IF THEY ARE NOT SURE.

I spend a lot of time answering people online who don't have a breeder to help them.

A trip to the pet store, which should take 20 minutes, typically take me 2 hours - because people stop me to ask questions about the dogs.

Question answered.

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Reply with quote  #109 
Oh my, so many posts since this morning, and still we're all going around in circles...

Kevin, I appreciate your efforts at presenting your side of the story.  However, every time I ask a question, you don't answer it directly but say that you know best and to take your word for it, and then you change the subject.

You say that the AM message boards prove that there are no significant problems with temperament in the breed, because the boards are made up of owners, and everyone is happy and thinks their dog is perfect!

But it is a fact of human nature that most people don't like to complain publicly, don't like to admit that they may have been wrong, and don't want to open themselves up to criticism.  I myself have said that I didn't speak up about my experience at first because I didn't want people to think I was a "Bad Owner" or that I gave up on my dog too soon or didn't do enough to help him.

I visited the AM boards frequently, and all I read was happy stories.  I thought "Hey, I guess we were the exception to the rule"  But then I started hearing rumors of problem AMs, and I began looking into it.  There was no hard evidence, but enough suggestions of a problem than it seemed likely we weren't the only exception.

So I decided to post my experience, let the S*&% hit the fan and the chips fall where they may.  And when I did that, I started getting contacted by people who said "Hey, that's what happened to me, but I thought it was just our dog and bad luck.  I thought I needed to work harder with my dog, or try a different training method, but nothing really seems to help"

And people on the AM boards called me bitter, and claimed that I was out to get them.  I've tried very hard to remain polite, and friendly, and to see both sides of the story, if only to honor the memory of my dog, who I loved dearly.  I have no regrets, he brought me a lot of joy, and eventually led me to seek out the dog I have now and to make many new friends.

But I believe in honesty and open discussion, very strongly.  Problems don't get solved unless people talk about them in a thoughtful and considerate manner.  Yes, its impossible to be completely objective, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't try.

You say: "Each one of my breeding dogs is examined and tested thoroughly before they are bred for most of what you have mentioned and others that you have not. I trust my Vets, they know my dogs, they know me. They come to my house on average 3 times for every litter and see my dogs (all of them) at least twice a year problems or not. "

Okay, so you take your dogs to the vet.  Bully good!  But isn't that what any owner should do?  A general exam doesn't tell you anything if a dog is asymptomatic, or carries a disease-causing gene.  And if you have the other test results, why not register them in the CHIC database? (you can list other testing results without having to submit OFA hip/elbow scores). 

Isn't it important to share information freely? - this is how we've been able to gain understanding about dog diseases - one breed has a problem, they sponsor research, test their dogs, publish the results, so on and so on, and voila, scientists are able to identify a mutant allele that causes a disease. Now all breeders of breed "A" are able to identify which dogs carry the mutation.

Now people who have breed "B" say "Hey, our dogs have that disease too, maybe we should look into it!"  So they sponsor a research project, test their dogs, report the results, and voila, turns out that the mutation ISN'T present in breed "B".  BUT, now the scientists have all the DNA samples, and the pedigrees, and they take a second look, and they find a new mutation, maybe in a completely different gene, and a few years later, breed "B" now has a test, and MORE IMPORTANTLY we now have a better understanding of this particular disease

You say "I give every buyer my Vets name and document any issues that the Vet may have with the puppy if any. I have always be lived in full disclosure to my buyers. "

Good! (I'm not being sarcastic here, honest).  I believe its very important for ANY dog breeder to be honest and upfront.  These aren't appliances, these are members of our family, and there's a huge potential for injury and heartbreak with a large breed dog. 

But I purchased my AM from the very person who STARTED the breed!  And when I ran into problems, she claimed that our situation was unique.  But there is good reason to believe that there IS a problem SOMEWHERE within AM breeding programs.  Maybe not in every kennel, and maybe the reports are all anecdotal, but haven't there been enough red flags raised to warrant a closer look?

It says nothing about the temperament of AMs to refer to the existence of aggressive mastiffs.  If you've got a Honda Civic that has transmission problems, it says nothing to point at a Toyota Corolla and say "Well, they have transmission problems too"  Yeah, they're both small Japanese cars, but so what?

Believe me, I get even more pissed off at mastiff breeders who try to hide or minimize problems - I've met aggressive mastiffs, and its an issue that RESPONSIBLE mastiff breeders are trying to solve. 

I read a thread on another board yesterday where people were discussing the temperament of a particular well known mastiff stud who was prominent in the 1970s.  Not only was this particular dog talked about, but also his father, his grandfathers, and many of his direct descendants.  For me, THIS IS WHY PEDIGREES MATTER - so we can go back and look at these dogs, and talk about them and try to figure out which lines to use when designing a breeding program that truly works to protect and improve the breed!  Its NOT about being able to say that my dog is better, or "purer" and anything like that!

Which brings us to your statement "We don't want to be AKC, I am sorry if that offends you, I have been a AKC breeder as have many others of my fellows and we disagree with many policies and practices of that organization."
 
I don't think I've even spoken about the AKC directly!  Yes, my dog is AKC registered, but that's not why I got him.  I have many issues with the AKC myself, especially regarding puppy mills, BYBs and dogs sold online or through pet stores.

Other breeds have faced the same issues, and there ARE options other than the AKC.  I don't have any experience with the UKC, but I like the fact that most (all?) dogs are handled by their owners at UKC shows.  I plan to eventually show my dog at Canadian and international shows to see how he measures up against mastiffs from other countries.  Some of the herding breeds have set up their own registries because they didn't like the changes they were seeing in their breeds that impinged upon the dogs' working abilities.

But I think it has been said often, that the CKC (Continental, not Canadian), also has not done much to promote responsible breeding, given that they will grant registration to almost any dog. 

So, if you don't like the AKC, why go to a registry that's even worse???!!!  The CKC doesn't seem to do much to promote responsible pet ownership, to defend the legal rights of dog owners, or to promote health research.  One thing that is very commendable about the AKC is that they DO do these things, through programs like the Canine Good Citizen program, lobbying efforts, the Canine Health Foundation, not to mention all the performance events open to people who aren't interested in conformation.  I think efforts like these have done a lot of good for the benefit of ALL dogs, not just purebred AKC-registered dogs (think about all the folks who watch Eukanuba on Animal Planet and learn more about obedience training, therapy and service dogs, and the different personalities that different dogs have!)

Finally, regarding the issue of nomenclature , you give examples of other dogs within the mastiff/molosser family, such as the Tibetan mastiff, the Neapolitan mastiff, etc.  But these breeds are all CLEARLY different dogs, they look different, they have different purposes and characteristics, and people who own these breeds are eager to point these differences out.  A Neo owner would never say "Oh, my dog is just like a mastiff, except he's gray and more wrinkly"  A Tibetan is more than a fluffy mastiff. 

But what IS an AM?  A mastiff that is "healthier" and doesn't drool.  EXCEPT, there's little objective data that AMs are healthier (unless we take your word for it) and we know that individual AMs are very drooly (just like individual mastiffs are pretty dry-mouthed).

As for providing wonderful pets to people looking for them, great!  Except that if there's nothing especially unique or essential about an AM, then why bother breeding them?  There are thousands of wonderful pets out there who have a little bit of this, and a little bit of that, and who need homes. 
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mariaruoto

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Reply with quote  #110 
You need to understand different breeders have different "rules" when in breeding mode. It's your job as a puppy buyer to find the right breeder for you - you may find them on your first phonecall - or it may take a year.

I do not allow visitors in once a girl is bred and this rule continues until the pups are 6 weeks old.

I help my puppy's new family choose their new family member with weekly (if not every other day) emails of descriptions of personalities developing and pictures.

And, since I breed for ME (meaning to get MY next show dog and b/c I want something out of the breeding) I get to choose first.

So, like I said, every breeder has different rules they breed by and they each have their own reasons for their rules. Also, when a breeder has a litter their time is extremely limited and many cannot chat on the phone or email. That 20 minutes is much better spent trying to catch a wink or two.

Who is anyone to question them?????? They are the ones who painstaking take on this task with passion and diligence - they are the ones who don't sleep for weeks - they are the ones that feel the deepest pain if something goes wrong either with their bitch or a puppy.


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Reply with quote  #111 
I admire all of you with the energy to stick up for "our" opinions, beliefs etc...
I honestly don't have the mental strength and spirit to go head to head with all that is being said on this thread right now so I'll just cheer from the side lines.
I do have a few questions that have formed in my mind though.
Is it wrong to create a new breed of dog?
I don't think there is anything intrinsically wrong with such an endeavor and the labrador/poodle service dog for people with allergies is a perfect example of how and why one who embark of such a project. I do not however believe that making dogs just to supply the world with puppies is an ethical pass time, profit or not, given the state of unwanted pets in our societies.
All of these designer dogs are just part of the puppy industry and I don't believe it is an ethical industry. Breeding companion animals should always remain a hobby. Lucrative or not.
The world of pure bred dogs has a long history of passionate dog folks taking it very seriously. The majority of pure breeds can be historically traced back to the Victorian era. New breeds are still being discovered all the time around the world, and some extinct breeds are coming back to life due to the effort of dedicated dog folks. You see, breeds are valued - People write books, study the history and pour all of their love into protecting what they love and cherish. It's their hobby, it adds value to their life.
When breeds are bred to near perfection, that perfection is identified and weighed by a standard.
When creating a new breed you must first have a plan and work towards perfecting it through selective breeding to lock in desired traits.
If people think that there is a benefit to combining the Anatolian with the mastiff can they say what they are doing to achieve those benefits? Are they keeping close track of success and failure with each breeding? How are they going about choosing worthy breeding stock? What is the standard? Breeding mutts over numerous generations will not accomplish the establishment of a breed - since the AM is making a claim to be a new breed I would like to see the stud book - it cannot be big. How does a dog get into the stud book? If I bred two pure dogs, one AS and one EM could I have it registered and with who? What are the guide lines set by the AM club? Is there a club? Are there any gatherings to asses breeding stock? Is there a standard? What group of people decided on the standard?
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Reply with quote  #112 
Bravo Angie, you hit the nail on the head!

Its NOT wrong to create a new breed for a new purpose or even a new "look" (except when that "look" causes problems for the dog itself - like smooshed noses that interfere with breathing)  I personally love Bullmastiffs and am glad that someone created them!

But if there's not a clear purpose, or if the purpose isn't achieved, then why persist?  The Labradoodle was a noble idea, but it didn't work - people who want to create a allergy-free service dog don't breed Labradoodles anymore.  The people who breed Labradoodles by and large are trying to take advantage of misleading hype and make a buck in the process.

But if the purpose is to create nice pets, well, that's just sad, given all the dogs euthanized every year.  I live near a puppy "farm" that breeds every kind of designer crossbreed imaginable - it has been documented that excess "inventory" ends up in our local shelters, and many of these dogs are put to sleep due to the lack of available homes and resources.
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EileenDurante

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Reply with quote  #113 
Beautiful post Angie

Sorry but I have to ask

YOU WROTE : Are there any gatherings to asses

Was this "asses" a typo or Fraudian slip ?

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rainydaysmastiffs

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Reply with quote  #114 
Eileen,
OMG, that's funny!

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Reply with quote  #115 
Quote:
Was this "asses" a typo or Fraudian slip ?


LOL - I'll just leave that open for speculation!

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OsoBodacious

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Reply with quote  #116 
Quote:
but again the general public doesn't know that any of this exists. The closets most people get to a dog show is the television.


Then the general public needs to do more research on the matter before buying a giant dog such as a Mastiff.  As Maria said, I spend a lot of time at shows or the pet store talking to people about Mastiffs.  I invite people to visit my house and meet a Mastiff up close and personal before they consider buying one.

Quote:
I think it's quite obvious that the breeders that I contacted were not reputable breeders. And you can look at my dogs and tell that jab you took at me is not true…my dogs are very well cared for


It was not intended as a "jab".  A prospective puppy buyer may not meet a breeder's criteria simply because they don't have a fenced in yard, or simply because the breeder feels the prospective buyer hasn't done enough research into the breed.

There are any number of reasons why you might not meet their standards that has absolutely nothing to do with how well you might care for the dog.

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redheads

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Reply with quote  #117 

Apparently,the general public is willing to educate themselves,because,I recieve phone calls every week through rescue from people who just want to learn about the breed,and whether it is right for them.We also give out breed information at every event in Vegas,not just dog shows.Over 10,000 people visit Pet a Palooza every year!!These are not folks who are looking to breed(most of the time),and truly want to make an educated decision.I DO NOT discourage people,but we do share pros and cons(mostly pros ).Like any breed,they are not ALWAYS the best match.I adore them(I also adore draft horses),but they are not for everyone.If I was to steer someone in the direction of a mix,it would only be to our local shelter or SPCA,not a "breeder" who makes up all kinds of new breeds of horses and dogs,and even starts their own registry to register these animals.RED FLAG!!

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Dunkirkmastiffs

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Reply with quote  #118 
The health claims are unproven and irrelevant
Plain and simple she mixed a giant breed with a breed that has a sharper temperament for the cosmetic purpose of creating a dry-mouth mastiff. Plain and simple it was a gimmick to make money with out one minutes consideration for the temperament and size issue. It was reckless and irresponsible and yet you are somehow proud to continue the tradition. Boggles the mind!

You want a dry-mouthed dog --go to the shelter and pick out one without jowls/

The AKC (as any organization that is made up of more than 5 people) may have its problems but I am thankful that they have invited us on numerous occasions to participate in Meet the Breeds, to give responsible dog ownership talks and even speak on local tv shows. Know that there is never a talk I give that doesn't include a section on how reprehensible these "designer-mutts" are and I never miss the opportunity to be clear about what a reckless and dangerous mutt I think the AM-mutt is!

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Reply with quote  #119 
Let's not lose sight of what this thread is about.  It is about the AM and how it is riding piggy back on our breed.  It is most definitely not about how much we Mastiff breeders/owners do public relations...

Point blank... as others have said...there is NO specific purpose other that putting an idea into one's head "Designer Breed" and for some reason, that seems to attract some who 'want something different'.  They don't put 2+2 together...their thought process does not register...MUTT... they actually think they are on the ground floor solidifying the breed for the future...  Very sad...  The shelters are overcrowded with mixed breeds...

The AM looks a poorly bred Mastiff.  Funny...yesterday I was browsing at Dog News at the Repro vet.  Then I came across a picture of a Rhodesian...  Well, needless to say, it brought back the image posted here... great resemblence in head and body type. (not to bring down the Rhodesian because it was a nice specimen).

Last night was Barnes & Noble night in which a portion of the sales goes back to our school.  In all the chaos and madness there, Carl and I found our way back to the Pet section... and lo and behold, there on the table was a hardcover book "Designer Breeds".  

'Mastdador' (lab x Mastiff)
http://pets.webshots.com/photo/2886680320088947309sSnVEJ
http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/m/mastador.htm

'Mastibull'
http://www.dogs4sale.net/topic329083.html,
http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/m/mastibull.htm

Now READ THIS!
http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/designerdogs.htm

Could it POSSIBLY be the MEDIA?  Just to let you know about the power the media has on kids.  My kids come home from school one day and inform me that Paris Hilton has a new dog...a Rottie and gave me this link: http://www.uncoveror.com/paris.htm  (I will NOT comment on this one...but read it...)

Carl and I could not believe the combinations.  Reminds me of the kid in Toy Story who destroyed toys and interchanged the parts to his liking.

It is unfortunate that our society is so gullible and entertain a designer dog and pay $$$ for them. 

Bes 
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Reply with quote  #120 
mastiff mixes needing homes - i.e. Rescue!
http://search.petfinder.com/petnote/displaypet.cgi?petid=4449710
http://search.petfinder.com/petnote/displaypet.cgi?petid=9462596
http://search.petfinder.com/petnote/displaypet.cgi?petid=9641392
http://search.petfinder.com/petnote/displaypet.cgi?petid=9246446
http://search.petfinder.com/petnote/displaypet.cgi?petid=7106669
http://search.petfinder.com/petnote/displaypet.cgi?petid=8793081
http://search.petfinder.com/petnote/displaypet.cgi?petid=8153112
http://search.petfinder.com/petnote/displaypet.cgi?petid=9639178
http://search.petfinder.com/petnote/displaypet.cgi?petid=9344219
http://search.petfinder.com/petnote/displaypet.cgi?petid=9632187
http://search.petfinder.com/petnote/displaypet.cgi?petid=8862247
http://search.petfinder.com/petnote/displaypet.cgi?petid=9136174
http://search.petfinder.com/petnote/displaypet.cgi?petid=9608717
http://search.petfinder.com/petnote/displaypet.cgi?petid=9583212
http://search.petfinder.com/petnote/displaypet.cgi?petid=9455652
http://search.petfinder.com/petnote/displaypet.cgi?petid=9450795
http://search.petfinder.com/petnote/displaypet.cgi?petid=8778954
http://search.petfinder.com/petnote/displaypet.cgi?petid=9579707

And the list goes on and on and on and on............

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mariaruoto

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Reply with quote  #121 

What's the difference between a designer dog and a mutt?

Generally, a mutt is of uncertain ancestry.

A designer dog has documented purebred ancestry, and one knows for sure what it is. 

 

No ancestry can be proven on the "AM".


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mariaruoto

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Reply with quote  #122 
Quote:
Could it POSSIBLY be the MEDIA? 


Bes,

Maybe we need to start using the media to OUR advantage.

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Reply with quote  #123 
Angie,
My heart bleeds for these poor puppies but I think it’s a tragedy when any dog is discarded as so much trash regardless of its heritage; the fact that they are part mastiff doesn’t make it any more or less tragic. Is it less tragic if the dog that has been dumped is full blooded? There are millions of unwanted dogs discarded each year and the only way that we are going to put an end to this is to stop breeding dogs in the US until the shelters are empty and I’m pretty sure that’s not going to happen.

I also have two rescue dogs; my AM’s are the first dogs that I have owned that didn’t come from the local shelter in over 15 years. I really don’t want to fight with you about the fact that I chose to own an AM and that I’m happy with my choice.

All I have ever wanted was to be able to post on this forum and talk about my dogs and not feel as though I’m being held up as some sort of Pariah because of the choices that I made. There have been so many times when I have been reading threads on this forum and I knew that I could have answered a question or added some insight to a problem that someone was having but I wouldn’t post because I knew that I would either have to lie about my dogs or refrain from telling their true heritage and I didn’t want to do either.

I own 4 dogs…all of them are mixed breeds…can’t we just leave it at that and not attack people for the breed or lack there of that they have chosen to own?
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mariaruoto

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Reply with quote  #124 
Quote:
My heart bleeds for these poor puppies but I think it’s a tragedy when any dog is discarded as so much trash regardless of its heritage; the fact that they are part mastiff doesn’t make it any more or less tragic. Is it less tragic if the dog that has been dumped is full blooded? There are millions of unwanted dogs discarded each year and the only way that we are going to put an end to this is to stop breeding dogs in the US until the shelters are empty and I’m pretty sure that’s not going to happen.

I also have two rescue dogs; my AM’s are the first dogs that I have owned that didn’t come from the local shelter in over 15 years. I really don’t want to fight with you about the fact that I chose to own an AM and that I’m happy with my choice.

All I have ever wanted was to be able to post on this forum and talk about my dogs and not feel as though I’m being held up as some sort of Pariah because of the choices that I made. There have been so many times when I have been reading threads on this forum and I knew that I could have answered a question or added some insight to a problem that someone was having but I wouldn’t post because I knew that I would either have to lie about my dogs or refrain from telling their true heritage and I didn’t want to do either.

I own 4 dogs…all of them are mixed breeds…can’t we just leave it at that and not attack people for the breed or lack there of that they have chosen to own?


Separate from the tragedy for the dogs in the shelter - when the Mastiff name is attached to them - it is a tragedy for the MASTIFF as a breed. Often, that's the one word that people remember - just like the post about the Mastiffs in the local paper - you didn't realize that there were a variety of breeds there - you saw Mastiff - and held that in your memory. It affects our breed, their reputation and the reputation of responsible breeders.

I'm glad you are happy with your choice. The unfortunate thing is you could've gotten generally the same thing at your local shelter. They are not a rare, designer/independent breed. They are the product of a woman that tossed a Mastiff and a "?????" that she available on her farm and let them mate...then came up with a marketing plan to sell them. Not for nothing - even the "breeders" of my byb Mastiff (my first Mastiff - whom I adore dearly - but in no way shape or form does he meet the standard) were able to provide me with complete pedigree information and knew some history on the breed! Yet, not one "AM" breeder/council member can fill in the blanks for their dogs.

We can certainly leave it at the fact that you own 4 mixed dogs. And, I'm sure you do have insight to offer! I never attacked - I merely asked very basic questions about your "AMs".

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Maria S. Ruoto
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clydeman

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Reply with quote  #125 
Betty:  If you wan't to post about diets, or funny thing, or vet issues, etc etc  fine and you would be welcome.  However, this thread was trying to justify the AM and not many people here are going sympathize.  The AM breeders are targeting the mastiff to their own benifit and to justify that here is asking for a confrontation.

You will, most likely, not get confronted like this on one of the general topics not related to AM. 

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