Register  |   |   |  Calendar  |  Latest Topics
 
 
 


Reply
  Author   Comment   Page 2 of 7      Prev   1   2   3   4   5   Next   »
redheads

Registered:
Posts: 771
Reply with quote  #26 
Then I should invite ya over to the Gypsy Horse board .I really want to know HOW Lion King is the father of 5 of the babies(selling for $2000),when his stud fee is $4000????That is a heck of a deal,Ill buy all of them,lol


http://www.gypsyhorses.com/Horses/lionking.htm
0
clydeman

Registered:
Posts: 403
Reply with quote  #27 
The Gypsy King.  Wow, what a horse.  They look like a type of draft horse???

I don't know much about what a Gypsy Vanner is but I like  what I seen in these pictures.  Mastiff sized.  argh, argh argh.  Picture a man doing the tool time grunt.

__________________
Dwight
http://www.linguardmastiffs.com
0
Jademmastiffs

Registered:
Posts: 2,783
Reply with quote  #28 
Aparently Betty has ran away???

I wonder if there is an Anatolian message board having these same discusions about the AM.....I bet there is and I bet they are just as ticked!!!

My Vet will be the first to vouch for how awful the AM truly is, he has already had to destroy four of them this year due to their NASTY temperaments.

__________________
Tina W.
Jadem Mastiffs

~** http://www.jademmastiffs.com ~**

I have a low tolerance for stupid....so dont push it!
(crazy, however, is perfectly acceptable)

0
goldleaf

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 8,058
Reply with quote  #29 
People will always try to convince us that they're doing a good thing.  This is a mastiff message board, we love our dogs and want to protect them.  Gotta give em credit for trying though - LOL!  Next????

__________________
0


Registered:
Posts: N/A
Reply with quote  #30 
WARNING - long post ahead, but please try to wade through it, because I think I can offer a unique perspective on this debate.

I've had first hand experience with both an AM and an EM - there's no comparing the two, as far as I'm concerned. 

My EM is just a fantastic dog, LOOKS like a mastiff (big, stocky, and he's only 16 months old), and has the most solid dependable temperament I've ever seen in a dog!  He earned his Rally Novice title just after his first birthday (the very first title I've ever put on a dog before!) and I'm hoping to put many more on him.  He's as healthy as can be, has passed all his testing so far.  He only drools after drinking (really, I'm amazed at how few slingers I have to wipe up!)

My AM, well, that was just a complete disaster, all around.  Nothing but heartbreak... below I've quoted a post that I put up about a year ago.  In essence, my AM didn't look like a mastiff (people always mistook him for a Great Dane), he had food allergies from the get-go, temperament problems from the time he was four months old, and he drooled like no dog I've ever seen.

As for breeders, again, its night and day, as far as I'm concerned.  Fredericka has a very beautiful facility, but she made no effort to find out about us or our needs for a pet - she just took our deposit and a few weeks later my husband picked out our puppy from the bunch - the whole visit took about half an hour. 

When we ran into problems with him early on, she was very nice about it, but told us she had never heard of similar problems with any of her puppies before (we later found out this was probably not accurate!) 

When we finally had no choice but to put our dog to sleep, Fredericka offered us another puppy, but never offered to take him back. If she had offered, I might have considered it, because I was completely heartbroken.  In hindsight, I'm glad she didn't offer, because who knows what would have happened to him - I don't have to worry about passing the problem on to another unsuspecting family.

The breeder I got my EM from, well, she's just amazing!  She's someone that many of you here probably know, but I don't want to drag her into this, so she shall remain nameless here.  I've recommended her to many people, and I'm willing to talk in private to anyone about my experience.

She spent several hours talking to me by phone, had us fill out a very detailed application.  I told her what I was looking for in a puppy, and she picked out one that she thought would fit the bill (he is very rambunctious and curious for a mastiff, and she has told me that if she hadn't found someone who could channel his energy in a positive way, she would have kept him rather than send him off with someone who might not be up to the challenge).  We drove up to her house, spent the better part of an afternoon getting to know her, meeting her dogs (who all live in the house!), and just talking about mastiffs in general.

Since then, she has become a very good friend.  She is always willing to answer questions and provide encouragement.  She keeps in touch with her puppy owners through a message board she has set up, and she has introduced me to lots of other mastiff owners.

Most impressively, if one of her dogs has a health problem, she actively tells people about it, even if it is an isolated incident and not likely due to genetics.  She posts messages letting other owners know to keep an eye out for any problems.

I have no doubt that if I was unable or unwilling to care for my dog, I could show up on her doorstep and she would take him back in an instant and make sure he had a stable and loving home.  I'd never take him back, though, because I love this dog, and I'm so grateful to her for trusting me with him!

Since putting my AM to sleep about a year and a half ago, I have been contacted by a few other people who have had similar experiences with dogs from FWF.  One such dog had the same father as my AM. 

The behaviorist that we worked with called me several months ago because she had another client with a FWF dog who was exhibiting the same problem behavior as our dog had, at about the same age.  This is rather disturbing, because we live in a mid-sized town many hundreds of miles away from Ohio, where FWF is located.  What are the odds???!!!

See the next message for my earlier post and the full story of what we went through...


0


Registered:
Posts: N/A
Reply with quote  #31 
From my post of 12/29/06:

"
Long time ago, I swore I wouldn't get involved in these EM vs AM debates, but as time goes on, I feel that I must speak up.  I've had personal experience with both kinds of dog.  The first mastiff-type dog I ever owned was an AM, adopted directly from Flying W.  My husband and I are both trained as biologists, and know a fair amount about genetics, although not specifically about dog breeding.

We thought the AM sounded like a good idea at the time, hybrid vigor and all that.  We knew that mastiffs were prone to various genetic diseases and had short life spans.  I was a little squicked by the idea of gallons of drool, so the "drool-less" factor was a plus as far as I was concerned.  I didn't care about pedigrees or shows - I'm a function over form type of girl.  I knew that many Border Collie folks were upset when their breed was recognized by AKC, worrying that the dogs working skills would be lost if appearance began to trump herding ability.

The dog we got from Flying W was not the dog we had hoped for.  Now I know that every breed has individuals with problems of any sort.  Goldens can be aggressive, I've even know a Border collie who hated to herd sheep!  But instead of a big barrel-chested dog with a square head and a rock-solid temperament, we became the owners of a lanky, tall, drooly dog with a tendency to bite without warning or obvious trigger.

He was sweet, obedient, and I loved him like no other dog.  But he was a danger to my child and any other people he came in contact with.  He had food allergies and separation anxiety.  We consulted with people who are well-respected for their expertise in dealing with behavioral problems, and followed their advice to the best of our abilities.  We spent as much time and money as we could afford trying to fix the problem (we're reasonably affluent, but not wealthy).  He lived to be almost three years old - two and a half years were spent trying to "fix" him.

Because of the number of bites he had inflicted, there was no way any rescue group would accept him, and no way I could ethically consider turning him over to another owner.  It broke my heart when we finally let him go.

I'd read postings on various forums about people who had similar experiences and I'd talked to people who worked with rescue groups who had seen AMs with aggression problems.  I tried to contact a few people who had first-hand experiences like ours, but did not succeed.

For many months I kept my story to myself for the most part.  I really felt that I had done everything I could, but I was embarassed about falling for the AM "advertising" and worried that people would judge me as an incompetent dog owner.  I was ashamed that I let my affection for the dog get in the way of my responsibility as a mother - I took risks with my daughter's safety and well-being that I shouldn't have.  It would have been a great comfort to know that there were other people who had gone through the same painful experience and had to make the same difficult decisions.

Now I have a wonderful mastiff (EM), who is everything I ever wanted in a dog!  I now know so much more about dog behavior, breeding, genetics, conformation standards -  my educational and work background makes it easy for me to find this information and sort the good information from the bad, plus I actually enjoy learning about this stuff!  But much of this information is stuff that the average pet owner should never have to worry about, much less understand.  I feel I have a duty to let others know about my experience when the topic comes up.

Of course, I'm only one person, with two dogs - one who turned out okay, and another who didn't - not a scientific, statistically-significant sample population.  Nor am I completely objective - there are a lot of strong emotions involved.  But I think I can say I have no regrets and I don't have any ill feelings towards Fredericka or other AM breeders/owners - I just think that there are lots of things potential AM owners should know, and the AM community is sugar-coating the negatives and hyping the positives of their dogs, while casting aspersions on the motives/expertise/experience of the EM community. 

The AM people complain that their dogs are being unfairly judged, but they don't participate in the activities that would provide evidence for the claims they make. I've never seen a conformation event that AMs participate in, the dogs aren't listed in the health databases, pedigrees aren't readily available to anyone who wants to see them.  Its not enough to say your dogs are healthy, long-lived, structurally sound when there's no hard evidence for a disinterested outsider to reach that conclusion.  We are supposed to accept the word of AM fanciers as fact, but on the other hand, information about EMs is available from multiple, objective sources. 

For example, I know how many of my EM's relatives are negative for the PRA gene, I know which ancestors had hip dysplasia, which dogs were friendly towards all strangers and which ones were a little shy.  I can find all this information quickly and easily, and I don't have to rely on my breeder - I can look it all up myself.  I could never find this information for my AM, unless I grilled Fredericka herself for it - I'm too polite to do that, and there's really no way for me to verify whatever she would tell me.

I don't want to set myself up as some sort of dog breed Ralph Nader, but I want people to know that no breed is the perfect breed, and there are some complicated issues involved in choosing a dog that some people try to ignore.  And if there's anyone out there who is currently going through what I went through, I'd like them to know that they're not alone, and I can offer sympathy (privately or online) if it will make things easier.

Jumping off my soapbox now...."
0
redheads

Registered:
Posts: 771
Reply with quote  #32 

I am sorry about your loss of your AM.Thank you for sharing your EM experience,and bringing such positivity for hope to this thread. Congrats on your title

0


Registered:
Posts: N/A
Reply with quote  #33 
What a bunch of drivel.
1) Do the Tibetan Mastiff people object to the English Mastiff Breeders trying to usurp the name mastiff for their exclusive use?

Noun1.mastiffmastiff - an old breed of powerful deep-chested smooth-coated dog used chiefly as a watchdog and guard dog

[Middle English mastif, alteration (perhaps influenced by Old French mestif, mongrel) of Old French mastin, from Vulgar Latin *(canis) mnsutnus, tame (dog), from Latin mnsutus, past participle of mnsuscere, to tame : manus, hand; see man-2 in Indo-European roots + suscere, to accustom; see s(w)e- in Indo-European roots.]
 
 
 
2) Flying W American Mastiffs in Rescues-
 
I have made the offer several times that if any Mastiff rescue organization can establish that they have a Flying W American Mastiff in their rescue to contact me and I would guarantee to have that dog re homed or returned to the breeder. I have yet to have a taker in the more than two years since I made that offer on this and several other forums.
 
3)Designer Dogs -
 
"Dog hybrids are not recognized by the main breed registries. They should not be confused with independent breeds, which are also not recognized. The difference lies in the longevity of the breed, the numbers of breeders and the existence of a legitimate breed club, the number of specimens of the breed past a certain number of generations, whether or not it breeds true to type, for how long a breed registry has been maintained, and the reason for the nonrecognition. Often independent breed clubs oppose recognition, for reasons which usually concern maintaining independent control of the qualities of their chosen breed."


By definition the Flying W American Mastiff is not a Designer Dog but is an Independent Breed with no desire to become recognized by the AKC. Since when did the AKC become the desirable standard for breeding practices and breed management. While there are many admirable breeders within the AKC the AKC policies and procedures. Including the unregulated breeding of dogs, the tacit approval of puppy mills (most have AKC affiliation). It is dog lovers and and responsible breeders that keep a breed safe and on an evolutionary track not an organization that depends on puppy registration to provide its funding. Talk about promoting over breeding and poor breed management.

4) "THE AMERICAN MASTIFF looks identical to the English mastiff in color, shape, size, etc. however, they have a much dryer mouth due to out cross early on in the history of the breed."

This statement is probably a bit of hyperbole.

I would rewrite it thusly and shall when my new website is up.
The ideal American Mastiff looks very similar to the English Mastiff which was one of it's progenitors. In the course of continued breeding for the target traits of a dryer mouth and family oriented temperament some of the "ideal" has been compromised in some dogs. I as an American Mastiff breeder am less concerned about absolute conformance to physical appearance  and more concerned about health, temperament and dryer mouth.

5, OK lets talk about the elephant in the room. Health claims why don't I "test" my dogs etc.  Now please understand I am speaking for myself as a breeder not the breed organization though I be live most would agree.

I have been breeding these dogs for about 7 years now.
My farm has produce just a little over 100 puppies in those 7 years.
I keep very close contact with most of my buyers and track the health issues  associated with my dogs.

I participate in two forums established, populated and dedicated to the owners (not breeders) of the AM. These forums have approximately 500 owners and want to be owners registered. And unlike forums whose primary posters and participants are breeders who have a financial stake in the their breed the owners are the ones that will tell the absolute truth. Good, Bad or indifferent. 

Using the information gathered from those forums and my own buyers this is what I have found.

1) Does dysplasia exist? Yes at a rate just under 2.5%. This includes both genetic and congenital.

Why is the rate so low? Because the AMBC approves breeders who acquire their breeding stock from other recognized and approved breeders. There are currently 12 approved breeders for the AM. Growth is kept slow to insure maximum genetic diversity within a small population.  I will not buy a breeding dog from any bitch that has produced a dysplasic puppy or is under the age of 30 months or from a first litter. Therefore the incidence of dysplasia is reduced below that of almost any other large breed OFA approved or not. OFA simply says the parent does not have dysplasia not that genetically they cannot produce a dysplasic puppy.

2) Why not test for known genetic problems such as PRA ?

There has never been a reported case of PRA in any of my puppies or the breed at large to my knowledge. If someone can prove that there is an issue with any of the known genetic problems I will start testing for it. I have yet to hear of one.

3) Do AM's live longer than EM's? I don't know. Based on my personal experience I would say yes but there is not enough information to support an absolute claim to longer life. I do know my 10 year old was out chasing the horses yesterday and winning.

4) Ahh the progenitors-- Indeed there is some confusion out there and in here about the progenitors. I have looked at the pedigrees of the known EM's and there are some pretty impressive names. The other side is a little hazier. But quite frankly I don't care that much. I am breeding a true breeding dog with characteristics that I and my buyer like. I have overwhelming proof in the form of over 11,000 posts in the past 4 years from satisfied owners (not breeders) of these dogs. Therefore we must be doing something right as much as you the EM breeders would nay say it. BTW- why is it that so many EM breeders are so vocal against the AM. Is there something perhaps less altruistic and more monetary at play. Do we threaten you? How can an "inferior mutt" threaten an established AKC breed. IS it that you think that buyers are so stupid as to be taken in by a bunch of con artist with nothing but graft and the fast buck in mind?

I do appreciate the opportunity to state my case and ask my questions. I will respond to any reasonable discourse but illogical tautology will be ignored. Any reasonable question I will try to answer but I will not repeat myself or get into the Internet equivalent of "he said, she said"

Facts and reasoned opinion are the fodder for the rational mind.

Kevin Ware



0
redheads

Registered:
Posts: 771
Reply with quote  #34 
Unfortunately,the Anatolian/American Mastiffs found by rescue usually have no microchip,nor can they "tell" us which "farm" they are from.I wish they could,because we can not take mixes in .Therefore,their lives are usually ended.So sad.

Could you please provide a contact name,phone #,email address for American/Anatolian Mastiff rescue? Do they have contacts in each state?We can not foster them,do you have boarding available until transport can be arranged?Im giving you and the dogs' an opportunity here.Please step up.
0
mariaruoto

Registered:
Posts: 3,846
Reply with quote  #35 
Quote:
Do the Tibetan Mastiff people object to the English Mastiff Breeders trying to usurp the name mastiff for their exclusive use? 


Usurp? Check out the AKC website - Mastiff is our breed's name.

__________________
"I hope that someday they can understand that it's not 'just a dog', but the thing that gives me humanity and keeps me from being 'just a (man or) woman'."
~Biby '06

Maria S. Ruoto
Dunraven Mastiffs
http://www.dunravenmastiffs.com
Mastiffs4U Store
0
mariaruoto

Registered:
Posts: 3,846
Reply with quote  #36 

Quote:

2) Flying W American Mastiffs in Rescues-
 
I have made the offer several times that if any Mastiff rescue organization can establish that they have a Flying W American Mastiff in their rescue to contact me and I would guarantee to have that dog re homed or returned to the breeder. I have yet to have a taker in the more than two years since I made that offer on this and several other forums.
 
I guess not everyone knows you or has heard your offer. Even if they had, if a dog were aggressive, why would they give him/her to you to rehome and put another family at risk?

__________________
"I hope that someday they can understand that it's not 'just a dog', but the thing that gives me humanity and keeps me from being 'just a (man or) woman'."
~Biby '06

Maria S. Ruoto
Dunraven Mastiffs
http://www.dunravenmastiffs.com
Mastiffs4U Store
0
mariaruoto

Registered:
Posts: 3,846
Reply with quote  #37 
Quote:
It is dog lovers and and responsible breeders that keep a breed safe and on an evolutionary track not an organization that depends on puppy registration to provide its funding. Talk about promoting over breeding and poor breed management. 


What is your evolutionary track? From what I'm gathering it's to be just like the Mastiff only with a drier mouth.

How many litters does your council permit per year? How many times can a female be bred? How often?

__________________
"I hope that someday they can understand that it's not 'just a dog', but the thing that gives me humanity and keeps me from being 'just a (man or) woman'."
~Biby '06

Maria S. Ruoto
Dunraven Mastiffs
http://www.dunravenmastiffs.com
Mastiffs4U Store
0
mariaruoto

Registered:
Posts: 3,846
Reply with quote  #38 
Quote:
By definition the Flying W American Mastiff is not a Designer Dog but is an Independent Breed with no desire to become recognized by the AKC. Since when did the AKC become the desirable standard for breeding practices and breed management.


So cockapoos and puggles will be considered independent breeds if they are around long enough? What a bright future for the dog world - anyone can breed two purebreds and become the creator of a breed. I guess the same goes for horses (at least in Fredricka's world).

If the "AM" wants to be so independent - why do they continusouly tout their likeness to the Mastiff? Which also begs the question, why no mention of the Anatolian part of the equation? Is it because there is no proof of what Fredricka's cocktail really contained?

__________________
"I hope that someday they can understand that it's not 'just a dog', but the thing that gives me humanity and keeps me from being 'just a (man or) woman'."
~Biby '06

Maria S. Ruoto
Dunraven Mastiffs
http://www.dunravenmastiffs.com
Mastiffs4U Store
0
mariaruoto

Registered:
Posts: 3,846
Reply with quote  #39 
Quote:
My farm has produce just a little over 100 puppies in those 7 years.


That's at least 14 puppies per year. How many litters produced those puppies? How many bitches? How many different studs?

How do you determine breeding stock? To produce so much - you must have an aweful lot of breeding worthy females? How do you select the stud?

__________________
"I hope that someday they can understand that it's not 'just a dog', but the thing that gives me humanity and keeps me from being 'just a (man or) woman'."
~Biby '06

Maria S. Ruoto
Dunraven Mastiffs
http://www.dunravenmastiffs.com
Mastiffs4U Store
0
mariaruoto

Registered:
Posts: 3,846
Reply with quote  #40 
Quote:
I keep very close contact with most of my buyers and track the health issues  associated with my dogs.
 


What do you do to prevent health issues?

__________________
"I hope that someday they can understand that it's not 'just a dog', but the thing that gives me humanity and keeps me from being 'just a (man or) woman'."
~Biby '06

Maria S. Ruoto
Dunraven Mastiffs
http://www.dunravenmastiffs.com
Mastiffs4U Store
0
Cammie

Registered:
Posts: 75
Reply with quote  #41 
Grimes - Can you please explain what the hell this means...

Quote:
I am breeding a true breeding dog...



__________________
What Wisdom Can You Find That Is Greater Than Kindness?
0
mariaruoto

Registered:
Posts: 3,846
Reply with quote  #42 
Quote:
And unlike forums whose primary posters and participants are breeders who have a financial stake in the their breed the owners are the ones that will tell the absolute truth. Good, Bad or indifferent. 


Since I'm in the red from the litter I had the beginning of this year - and I know many other breeders that face the same wall because of the money we spend on health testing, showing and caring for our dogs - I don't know what you mean by a financial stake. Perhaps you are referring to BYB's - leaving that statement a moot point here on this forum.

Kindly take a look at the number of posts listing litters vs the number of posts of people looking for advice, then tell me how the breeders on this board spend their time. This is certainly not a puppy pushing stop. In fact, I do believe the majority of the board members here are owners - not breeders.

__________________
"I hope that someday they can understand that it's not 'just a dog', but the thing that gives me humanity and keeps me from being 'just a (man or) woman'."
~Biby '06

Maria S. Ruoto
Dunraven Mastiffs
http://www.dunravenmastiffs.com
Mastiffs4U Store
0
Cammie

Registered:
Posts: 75
Reply with quote  #43 

Maria...I think you got rid of #2 with a quickness


__________________
What Wisdom Can You Find That Is Greater Than Kindness?
0
zodiacranch

Registered:
Posts: 931
Reply with quote  #44 
I just couldn't help myself from responding to this thread and the other where Gwenstone posted that website. I read through that website and thought the same thing someone else thought "are you f#&*@%* serious". I talk to people all over the place that are so misinformed about the EM and other breeds as well ,and it doesn't sup-rise me one bit when I read sites like this! They inform unsuspecting naive people these dogs are like no other , and their health and temperment is even better because of the cross! I worked in a vet clinic for 3 years and I have seen all breeds including mixes with hip dysplasia, elbow dysplasia, bloat,eye problems ect.....My point is : someone selling dogs to the general public and acting as if their dogs are exempt from any genetic problems because it is a cross(or even a purebred)is an A@%&*#@ (especially without health testing), I am also wondering like Jadem Anatolian, Great-Pyrenees, Dane and German Shepard breeders are probably as upset as the rest of us. To the AM owner who started this post your dogs are beautiful and I am sure you love them and they are great pets, I am one person who feels there are no bad dogs, just bad owners, but keeping that in mind there are dogs with different temperament's, which are meant for different things, the EM to me is patient,calm, stoic, affectionate, but yet somewhat protective when necessary, the Anatolian on the other hand was bred to kill predators that attack livestock, this includes wolves, coyotes, and even other dogs that that tried to kill their stock, they would chase down there attacker and kill it if they could.My rancher neighbors down the road have 2 Anatolians and Pyrenees and a Maremma (another livestock guard dog), They have described their dogs to me as being:Highly protective,territorial, and shy with strangers and that's why they keep them (the guy actually thought my dogs were cool, but not enough drive he told me). Like other people have said here this topic will probably just go in circles , But I am hoping that Am owners (or breeders) are willing to realize we love our breed and we want it to succeed and be all it can be for future generations, and when things are misrepresented  or truths are stretched (especially when it comes to health ) or even drooling it gets people a little fired up including myself.
 
 
                                                   Gemini

__________________
Gemini Herzog
0
mariaruoto

Registered:
Posts: 3,846
Reply with quote  #45 
Quote:
1) Does dysplasia exist? Yes at a rate just under 2.5%. This includes both genetic and congenital.

Why is the rate so low? Because the AMBC approves breeders who acquire their breeding stock from other recognized and approved breeders. There are currently 12 approved breeders for the AM. Growth is kept slow to insure maximum genetic diversity within a small population.  I will not buy a breeding dog from any bitch that has produced a dysplasic puppy or is under the age of 30 months or from a first litter. Therefore the incidence of dysplasia is reduced below that of almost any other large breed OFA approved or not. OFA simply says the parent does not have dysplasia not that genetically they cannot produce a dysplasic puppy.
 


How do you know any of this if there is no health testing performed? Or, do you have X-rays to back these statements up? How do you know it wasn't the sire that was to blame for the dysplasia and not the bitch?

Generally, the odds of producing dysplasia from dysplasia are greater than non-dysplastic dogs producing dysplasia.



__________________
"I hope that someday they can understand that it's not 'just a dog', but the thing that gives me humanity and keeps me from being 'just a (man or) woman'."
~Biby '06

Maria S. Ruoto
Dunraven Mastiffs
http://www.dunravenmastiffs.com
Mastiffs4U Store
0
mariaruoto

Registered:
Posts: 3,846
Reply with quote  #46 
Quote:
2) Why not test for known genetic problems such as PRA ?

There has never been a reported case of PRA in any of my puppies or the breed at large to my knowledge. If someone can prove that there is an issue with any of the known genetic problems I will start testing for it. I have yet to hear of one.


What about retinal folds or any other eye abnormalities - or any health concern for that matter?
To prove any issues would require testing.

__________________
"I hope that someday they can understand that it's not 'just a dog', but the thing that gives me humanity and keeps me from being 'just a (man or) woman'."
~Biby '06

Maria S. Ruoto
Dunraven Mastiffs
http://www.dunravenmastiffs.com
Mastiffs4U Store
0
mariaruoto

Registered:
Posts: 3,846
Reply with quote  #47 
Quote:
3) Do AM's live longer than EM's? I don't know. Based on my personal experience I would say yes but there is not enough information to support an absolute claim to longer life. I do know my 10 year old was out chasing the horses yesterday and winning.
 


Then why is the claim made by your founder and other "AM" breeders?

__________________
"I hope that someday they can understand that it's not 'just a dog', but the thing that gives me humanity and keeps me from being 'just a (man or) woman'."
~Biby '06

Maria S. Ruoto
Dunraven Mastiffs
http://www.dunravenmastiffs.com
Mastiffs4U Store
0
mariaruoto

Registered:
Posts: 3,846
Reply with quote  #48 
Quote:
I have looked at the pedigrees of the known EM's and there are some pretty impressive names.


Impressive names many generation back really don't mean much - if proper breeding wasn't carried through the pedigree. Also, impressive is subjective - who are the dogs you are referring to?


__________________
"I hope that someday they can understand that it's not 'just a dog', but the thing that gives me humanity and keeps me from being 'just a (man or) woman'."
~Biby '06

Maria S. Ruoto
Dunraven Mastiffs
http://www.dunravenmastiffs.com
Mastiffs4U Store
0
mariaruoto

Registered:
Posts: 3,846
Reply with quote  #49 
Quote:
The other side is a little hazier. But quite frankly I don't care that much. I am breeding a true breeding dog with characteristics that I and my buyer like.


So you admit to not knowing the foundation of the mix you continue to breed? Do you feel that is responsible? The fact that you don't care says an a lot, too. Why is Fredricka hiding this information?

In essence, based on your last sentence (above) you are breeding for your buyers - with no concern for a "standard" - hence breeding to sell puppies - I'd see that as breeding for money.

__________________
"I hope that someday they can understand that it's not 'just a dog', but the thing that gives me humanity and keeps me from being 'just a (man or) woman'."
~Biby '06

Maria S. Ruoto
Dunraven Mastiffs
http://www.dunravenmastiffs.com
Mastiffs4U Store
0
mariaruoto

Registered:
Posts: 3,846
Reply with quote  #50 

Quote:
Do we threaten you?


Was that supposed to be funny? If not, I do apologize for laughing!

What I don't find funny is how your mixed breed makes a lot of claims with no justification, has no founding function, and claims to be just like our breed.


__________________
"I hope that someday they can understand that it's not 'just a dog', but the thing that gives me humanity and keeps me from being 'just a (man or) woman'."
~Biby '06

Maria S. Ruoto
Dunraven Mastiffs
http://www.dunravenmastiffs.com
Mastiffs4U Store
0
Previous Topic | Next Topic
Print
Reply

Quick Navigation:


THANK YOU FOR VISITING OUR BOARD!!