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goldleaf

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American Mastiff

I get quite a few emails from people looking for puppies. At least 50% of them just can't wait to get an American Mastiff. I do the best I can to educate people on the difference, but I do see it becoming more of a problem every day. What can we do as breeders to educate the public? Can the clubs to anything to help with this problem?

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Reply with quote  #2 

American Mastiff


The problem seems to be widespread with this mutt breed. I have also gotten calls

for pups and people have been looking into the Am Mastiff, b/c they are told they

drool less.

I try and tell people these dogs are MUTTS, just like the Giant Maso.

These Masos and Am Mastiffs often end up in rescue b/c the buyers cannot deal with

them later as they get older and become agressive.

I think all you can do is educate them as best that you can when they call and hopefully

they will listen.

Do you have an issue with the Giant Maso breeders on the west coast, or is that just an east

coast problem?

Dianne

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goldleaf

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Reply with quote  #3 
American Mastiff

I've never noticed a problem with the Maso - no requests at all. Although I did have a guy call me for a beagle last night?????

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American Mastiff


Jann - the "Masos" which I refuse to acknowledge by that name and refer to them as the Cane Corso & Mastiff cross is big out here in Virginia. Dianne is right - there are a lot of these crosses that are presented to rescue groups b/c of bite history and unpredictability. Unfortunately, some of the "masos" that are brindle or AM's that are fawn can pass for a poorly bred Mastiff and it's often difficult for rescuers to determine the difference.

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goldleaf

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American Mastiff

I just don't get it. How can something become so "popular" in such a short time? I've really noticed a boom in the last year or so. They're not AKC recognized, they're not at shows, so where are these people getting their information?

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American Mastiff


I've never noticed a problem with the Maso - no requests at all.

** Count yourself LUCKY. It must just be an east coast issue b/c most of the breeders are based in VA.

just don't get it. How can something become so "popular" in such a short time? I've really noticed a boom in the last year or so. They're not AKC recognized, they're not at shows, so where are these people getting their information?

** I don't get it either, but I think when people search the internet and the Am Mastiff or Maso come up, they think they are getting a "better" dog as most Am Mastiff breeders say their breed Drools less. So JQP think they are getting a mastiff without all the drool among other things.

It's like people going out and buying these designer dogs, a Labradoodle? Please. Either get a Lab or a Poodle. OR if you want a mixed breed there are MANY in the shelter that need a home!

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LazarusMastiffs

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American Mastiff


I guess I never knew how much of a problem this was becoming in some areas. I have never seen one or even heard about one from anywhere other than a board, but it must be a problem in some areas. Maybe we can find who these breeders are in your areas and go from there. I don't know what can be done really unless the facilities are in poor shape or something. It is a real shame that anyone is dumb enough to cross a sharp temperament with 200 lb dogs!!!


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Chris Murphy
Lazarus and Surazal Mastiffs
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steveoifer

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Reply with quote  #8 

http://dogbreedinfo.com/americanmastiffpanja.htm

 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Mastiff


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For the betterment of the breed

"Above all, a uniform type should be aimed at by breeders and uniformity of type can only exist in a proportionate ratio in the purity and distinctiveness in any breed"!.........M. Moore
"If breeds did not adhere to a specific shape, form, and colour range, or if breeders disregarded this blueprint, the breed would degenerate to the point that it would hardly resemble the breed at all. Selective breeding does not just create breeds- it preserves them as well." Breeding purebred dogs inherently means accepting limitations on your freedom to just breed anything...Catherine McMillan
" A reinforced consolidation of the American and British standards could be the basis for restoring our breed to the gladiatorial glory of its ancient past, in capability if not in usage".....Norman Howard Carp-Gordon
"I can live with doubt, or not knowing, rather than to have answers that might be wrong"...Richard Feynman
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steveoifer

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Reply with quote  #9 
American Mastiff
American Mastiff
Alternative names
Panja
Country of origin
United States
Classification and breed standards
Not recognized by any major kennel club

There are at least two lines of dogs competing for the breed name American Mastiff; neither is recognized by any major English-language kennel club, although the Flying W American Mastiff is recognized by the Continental Kennel Club.

One line is the dry-mouthed American Mastiff, developed by the Flying W Farms kennel. Flying W Farms has bred English Mastiffs for decades, but noticed several negative health characteristics incumbent within the breed, namely hip dysplasia, excessive drooling, a shorter lifespan, and chronic elbow and knee problems, although it is important to keep in mind that not all English Mastiffs suffer from these ailments. During World War II, English Mastiffs nearly vanished from England; with resources limited due to the war effort, it became unpopular to feed a dog quantities of food that could feed an active soldier. Following the war, the English Mastiffs breed began to recover in North America, but perhaps due to the dramatic narrowing of the breed's bloodlines, many of these negative health traits began appearing more frequently. In order to correct these faults, Flying W Farms crossed the English Mastiff with an Anatolian Shepherd and engaged in aggressive medical screening of its sires and dams. Flying W Farms American Mastiffs are 7/8 English Mastiff and 1/8 Anatolian Shepherd.

This resulted in a breed that looks exactly like the English Mastiff but without the excessive drooling that is common in the English Mastiff. This American Mastiff loves children and are devoted to their families. These are loyal and calm dogs. They are generally non-aggressive except when their family is threatened. In those instances they become fierce and courageous guard dogs. American Mastiffs generally weigh between 150 and 250 pounds.

The second line is sometimes called the Panja American Mastiff, developed by the Panja kennel. The Panja Mastiffs have a reputation for being much more aggressive than the Flying W Farms breed, and less suitable for children. The Panja American Mastiff usually grows between 22 and 26 inches (56-66 cm.) and weighing from 80 to 100 pounds (36-45 kg.).

Both lines are very new with not much breed history, making them ineligible for registration in most breed registries; registries with relaxed requirements may recognize a new breed with minimal history, such as the Continental Kennel Club's recognition of the Flying W Farms line. Some critics claim that these are simply crossbred dogs or variants on the standard English Mastiff. It is not clear which line, if either, will ultimately become a solid breed known as the American Mastiff.


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For the betterment of the breed

"Above all, a uniform type should be aimed at by breeders and uniformity of type can only exist in a proportionate ratio in the purity and distinctiveness in any breed"!.........M. Moore
"If breeds did not adhere to a specific shape, form, and colour range, or if breeders disregarded this blueprint, the breed would degenerate to the point that it would hardly resemble the breed at all. Selective breeding does not just create breeds- it preserves them as well." Breeding purebred dogs inherently means accepting limitations on your freedom to just breed anything...Catherine McMillan
" A reinforced consolidation of the American and British standards could be the basis for restoring our breed to the gladiatorial glory of its ancient past, in capability if not in usage".....Norman Howard Carp-Gordon
"I can live with doubt, or not knowing, rather than to have answers that might be wrong"...Richard Feynman
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steveoifer

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Reply with quote  #10 

American Mastiff


Anyone who buys an "American Mastiff" is NUTS!

Just for the record!


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For the betterment of the breed

"Above all, a uniform type should be aimed at by breeders and uniformity of type can only exist in a proportionate ratio in the purity and distinctiveness in any breed"!.........M. Moore
"If breeds did not adhere to a specific shape, form, and colour range, or if breeders disregarded this blueprint, the breed would degenerate to the point that it would hardly resemble the breed at all. Selective breeding does not just create breeds- it preserves them as well." Breeding purebred dogs inherently means accepting limitations on your freedom to just breed anything...Catherine McMillan
" A reinforced consolidation of the American and British standards could be the basis for restoring our breed to the gladiatorial glory of its ancient past, in capability if not in usage".....Norman Howard Carp-Gordon
"I can live with doubt, or not knowing, rather than to have answers that might be wrong"...Richard Feynman
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steveoifer

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Reply with quote  #11 

PLEASSSSSSE!


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For the betterment of the breed

"Above all, a uniform type should be aimed at by breeders and uniformity of type can only exist in a proportionate ratio in the purity and distinctiveness in any breed"!.........M. Moore
"If breeds did not adhere to a specific shape, form, and colour range, or if breeders disregarded this blueprint, the breed would degenerate to the point that it would hardly resemble the breed at all. Selective breeding does not just create breeds- it preserves them as well." Breeding purebred dogs inherently means accepting limitations on your freedom to just breed anything...Catherine McMillan
" A reinforced consolidation of the American and British standards could be the basis for restoring our breed to the gladiatorial glory of its ancient past, in capability if not in usage".....Norman Howard Carp-Gordon
"I can live with doubt, or not knowing, rather than to have answers that might be wrong"...Richard Feynman
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steveoifer

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Reply with quote  #12 

There has been so many backyard crosses done and yet NOTHING has come close to the MASTIFF!

 

PERIOD!


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For the betterment of the breed

"Above all, a uniform type should be aimed at by breeders and uniformity of type can only exist in a proportionate ratio in the purity and distinctiveness in any breed"!.........M. Moore
"If breeds did not adhere to a specific shape, form, and colour range, or if breeders disregarded this blueprint, the breed would degenerate to the point that it would hardly resemble the breed at all. Selective breeding does not just create breeds- it preserves them as well." Breeding purebred dogs inherently means accepting limitations on your freedom to just breed anything...Catherine McMillan
" A reinforced consolidation of the American and British standards could be the basis for restoring our breed to the gladiatorial glory of its ancient past, in capability if not in usage".....Norman Howard Carp-Gordon
"I can live with doubt, or not knowing, rather than to have answers that might be wrong"...Richard Feynman
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StergoMastiffs

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Reply with quote  #13 

panja kennels is UNFORTUNATELY located within a few minutes of my home.  It saddens me every time my phone rings and "they" don't have any puppies, and everyone wants a mean dog like those.  I get sick and tired of answering my phone at times. Not to mention people calling all the time with "problems" and they want help fixing it.  I could go on for hours about this place ... but I wont.

 

 I should just put on my website that disclaimer I seen a few months ago,  That English Mastiffs are not associated with American Mastiffs.  Sorry I cannot remember who originally wrote that.

 

 The panja dogs look similar to cane corso's when the ears are cropped.  The sad thing is flint is big on these dogs, along with every inner city pit bulls as well. 

 

I do not like being discriminating, but I have NOT and WILL NOT sell to anyone living in Flint.  I keep in contact with all my puppy buyers.  I know when my puppies are spayed/neutered etc... but I don't want my first person not abiding by my contract to be living in Flint. 


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Jennifer W
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goldleaf

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Reply with quote  #14 
Hi Jennifer,
That disclaimer you're looking for is on my website, http://www.goldleafmastiffs.com.  Everyone, please use it if you would like.


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Cedarhollow

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First...this comment by Flying W makes me ROFLMAO, "engaged in aggressive medical screening of its sires and dams." PLEASE...show me the OFA's on these dogs!!! 

And this comment...same thing, "This resulted in a breed that looks exactly like the English Mastiff "  I have YET to see an AM that looks like anything more than a BYB Mastiff at best.

 

Now, that said...I have met a couple AM's that had wonderful temperaments.  BUT...I know of many more that were terrible...with 2 that were put down by the time they were 2yrs old they were so bad.

 

A long time friend and Mal breeder once said, "When you take a dog that owes it's loyalty to stock and breed it to a dog that owes it's loyalty to humans...you are just asking for trouble."  I think that pretty much sums it up.

 

Now...here in the NW...some of the "NEW" breeds that we are getting are: Mauzer - That is a Giant Schnauzer X Mastiff cross, Mastgan - Afgan X Mastiff & I don't even know what they are calling this one but it is a Wolfhound X Mastiff cross and all of these people have been at it a while and are on 3rd, 4th and even 5th generations! 

 

It is just sick.


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Jamie Morris
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steveoifer

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Reply with quote  #16 

Jamie,

 

They're called "Wolfstiffs"! They contemplated "Stiffhounds", but decided on the former for obvious reasons!...LOL


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For the betterment of the breed

"Above all, a uniform type should be aimed at by breeders and uniformity of type can only exist in a proportionate ratio in the purity and distinctiveness in any breed"!.........M. Moore
"If breeds did not adhere to a specific shape, form, and colour range, or if breeders disregarded this blueprint, the breed would degenerate to the point that it would hardly resemble the breed at all. Selective breeding does not just create breeds- it preserves them as well." Breeding purebred dogs inherently means accepting limitations on your freedom to just breed anything...Catherine McMillan
" A reinforced consolidation of the American and British standards could be the basis for restoring our breed to the gladiatorial glory of its ancient past, in capability if not in usage".....Norman Howard Carp-Gordon
"I can live with doubt, or not knowing, rather than to have answers that might be wrong"...Richard Feynman
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goldleaf

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Reply with quote  #17 
I think I will just send people to this thread if they ask about buying an Anatoloian/Mastiff cross (I don't want to promote the name either Kristen)

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NancyE

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Reply with quote  #18 

Jann, I have your disclaimer on the first page of my website, along with a link to mastiffs.org at the word "We".

 I have quite a few people who come to my web site through a search for "american mastiff". I like my link in your disclaimer so that in case anyone was wondering, they can click on it and go to mastiffs.org and see many more MASTIFFS other then mine.

 


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Monica

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Reply with quote  #19 

I've read about this before and the first thing that came to mind this morning is:  Is it possible to post an "opinon" about the cross-breeding with the title American Mastiff in it so that when people are searching on the web - it will come up?

 

I asked my husband (corporate securities attorney and partner in an international law firm) about liable and slander and what constitutes it.

 

He said if "someone" wanted to post an opinion and even discuss how they felt about the "American Mastiff" breed and even the potential side effects of such breeding, gonig as far as to state "the writer" feels that in general the AM breeders are not being cognizant of the risks.  That this in no way constitutese liable or slander. 

 

I feel the public needs to be made aware.  There are SO many people out there who "just want to have a "cool" this dog or a that dog..." that they are easily mislead and impulsive.  If there are "opinions" out there that will pop up when someone is doing a search - and it should cross-pop under both OEM and AM, maybe even other breeds - it might cause they to stop and think. 

 

Sadly the health issues and short lifespan that OEM's are labled with deter people.  Until you live with one warming your feet, snuggling your children, smearing its slobbery woobie over and over into your lap while you type, lay quietly on the floor while a 9 pound chihauha orders him too do so so that his eyes can be cleaned by the Chi (and yes, this is what is going on next to me right now)  - most people just don't understand this experience far outweighs the sometimes slobber and slingers on the back of the leg and yes sometimes health issues.

 

I am in favor for writing an aticle that talks about OEMs and AM - a comparrison.  Objections to the fact that they use "mastiff" in their name, etc.  Talk about the incidents of rescue (although I know there are plenty of mastiff rescue incidents as well...).  The point is if we get the word out there (and it is freedom of speach) on the Web rather than just on your sites, we might be able to deter some people.  Promote our breed right next to demoting the other breed.  It is not liable or slander - it is an opinion.  The opinion should be eloquently and properly written with class and respect for humans and dogs - BUT to inform.  Any takers STEVE?

 

And this is my opinion. 


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Monica
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steveoifer

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Reply with quote  #20 

It's a good thought Monica and I have no doubt that it could help some people decide before making the wrong choice. It could also backfire, when the AM people start to feel that we are attacking their breed and then they start attacking back in kind.

 

There will always be new breeds that somebody thinks is the "greatest" breed to have ever been developed and trying to halt every cross is just going to lead nowhere!

 

The people who decide to buy an "AM", are probably not too interested in doing enough homework for us to even want then owning English mastiffs!

 

The cream always rises to the top and we should be more concerned with developing & bettering our own breed and not bother with the "nouveau molosser du jour"!!


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For the betterment of the breed

"Above all, a uniform type should be aimed at by breeders and uniformity of type can only exist in a proportionate ratio in the purity and distinctiveness in any breed"!.........M. Moore
"If breeds did not adhere to a specific shape, form, and colour range, or if breeders disregarded this blueprint, the breed would degenerate to the point that it would hardly resemble the breed at all. Selective breeding does not just create breeds- it preserves them as well." Breeding purebred dogs inherently means accepting limitations on your freedom to just breed anything...Catherine McMillan
" A reinforced consolidation of the American and British standards could be the basis for restoring our breed to the gladiatorial glory of its ancient past, in capability if not in usage".....Norman Howard Carp-Gordon
"I can live with doubt, or not knowing, rather than to have answers that might be wrong"...Richard Feynman
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goldleaf

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Reply with quote  #21 
It would be nice to develop a website dedicated to this subject and should be written by someone that has alot of experience and knowledge of the Anatolian/Mastiff cross.  I personally don't have enough knowledge to share, but I do know it is one of my biggest peeves and has been for some time now.

I had a web page tracker for a while and 50% of the search term used to find my webpage was "American Mastiff".  I put the words "American Mastiff" on my page, but buried them so they can't be seen.  It does bring people to my page so that I have a chance to explain the difference when they contact me.  The words can be hidden in the page background.


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steveoifer

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Reply with quote  #22 

http://www.moloss.com/001/ptxt/breed.html

 

We can't police the world!


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For the betterment of the breed

"Above all, a uniform type should be aimed at by breeders and uniformity of type can only exist in a proportionate ratio in the purity and distinctiveness in any breed"!.........M. Moore
"If breeds did not adhere to a specific shape, form, and colour range, or if breeders disregarded this blueprint, the breed would degenerate to the point that it would hardly resemble the breed at all. Selective breeding does not just create breeds- it preserves them as well." Breeding purebred dogs inherently means accepting limitations on your freedom to just breed anything...Catherine McMillan
" A reinforced consolidation of the American and British standards could be the basis for restoring our breed to the gladiatorial glory of its ancient past, in capability if not in usage".....Norman Howard Carp-Gordon
"I can live with doubt, or not knowing, rather than to have answers that might be wrong"...Richard Feynman
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goldleaf

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Reply with quote  #23 
Steve, I do see what you mean, although the AM breeders are doing a good job of convincing newcomers that they are "almost" the same breed.  I wouldn't want to bash them, because I wouldn't want the same, but I do think it would be nice to have a place to send potential puppy buyers so that they can read and base their decision on facts.  I have no doubt that you're correct when you say it would make the AM breeders mad.  

I appreciate everyone' s input on this subject so far.  Off to the show, so have a great day everyone!


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Monica

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Reply with quote  #24 
Steve and Jann - great points (from veterans to newcomer).   This is the part I am still learning about "breeding/breeders."  Maybe someone will find a way to publicy and correctly enlighten without offending....
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Monica
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Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays to Everyone~
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NancyE

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Reply with quote  #25 

 For the life of me I'll never understand JQP's facination with mutts. - I mean paying a premium for mutts.

I shipped 2 puppies from 2 different airports recently, and both times there was someone else shipping cocka poos - or whatever the heck they were.  I asked because I didn't recognize what breed they were and I never fathomed that anyone would pay money for and then pay more money to ship a mutt half way across the US.


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Nancy
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