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StergoMastiffs

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Reply with quote  #76 

Jann,

 

I WOULD LOVE TO HELP YOU with a website, I will do whatever you would like me to do...

i need to vent a little... so bare with me and my thoughts!

 

I noticed one breeder of AM right here in my area... not to mention Panja is also here 10-15 minutes away from me.. so I have "both" american mastiff breeders in my backyard.

 

There are a few things that jump out at me...

#1, when writing a standard for a new breed, can they not be creative and make their own standard?  Everything written is taken from MCOA and a few words changed here or there.

 

#2 how can they be 1/8 anatolian shepard?  I am lost on this one lol..maybe some of you can help me understand this one or track it to see how the ratio is 1/8.   

 

#3 they say that they are the same in every way as the OEM, but less drool due to less jowel.. I am enclosing a picture of my girl who is 100% OEM and has a tight Jowell.. You CAN get an OEM with a tight Jowel with out spending much more money for a mixed breed. 

 

#4 if they were just HONEST and upfront about things I wouldnt have a problem.  We are not going to stop them because it is human nature (for the uneducated) to want something "rare, new, or different" than what everyone else has. We SHOULD make a place to differentiate the two though.  We should include what a registry is, and why they are registered CKC.   Details about both breeds.  The health problems of the OEM and anatolian, then combining the two, and the problems that are eventually going to creep up.  Right now alot of problems were "maksed" due to the outcrosses.  All the progress the two separate breeds are making, will now be mixed together.  For example, PRA, we found the gene in the OEM, but I don't know about the anatolian.  Are they going to be able to stop something like that?  Will the gene be on the same marker?  THINGS LIKE this is what PUPPY BUYERS are NOT TOLD! 

With all the hard work breeders do, the price of our puppies with all the research we all do, I don't see why people would want to spend $1500 on a puppy, that does drool, and according to them looks like our breed. 

 

I'm in where do you want me to start. 

 

 


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Jennifer W
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Reply with quote  #77 

hey thanks for all the help guys i really appreciate it. i am definately going to go with the EM.

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goldleaf

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Reply with quote  #78 
That's great to hear Drew.  I know you'll be happy with your decision.

Jennifer, there are so many branches a website like this could take and you have a lot of good ideas.  I think picking a name would be a good place to start and we can go one step at a time after that. 

So.....if anyone has recommendations for a website name, I'm all ears    I've been thinking about it and have had a tough time coming up with anything.


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StergoMastiffs

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Reply with quote  #79 

forgot the picture lol...

 

 



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Jennifer W
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StergoMastiffs

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Reply with quote  #80 

http://www.oemvsam.com    Old English Mastiffs vs American Mastiffs

 

http://www.differentmastiffs.com   The Difference between the American Mastiff and Old English Mastiff

 

just off the top of my head..

 

 

 

 


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Jennifer W
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goldleaf

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Reply with quote  #81 
Good - keep em coming......here's a couple like yours...

http://www.om_vs_am.com

http://www.om-vs-am.com




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steveoifer

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Reply with quote  #82 

REALITY CHECK!!!

 

http://www.moloss.com/001/ptxt/breed.html

 

Take your pick!

 

There are more versions of the mastiff in the world besides the "American" mastiff.

 

Each form developed with "rationalized reason" and there's more coming down the pike!

 

We need to focus on breeding better English mastiffs and not feel threatened by the hundreds of "alternative" mastiffs.

 

Anyone getting into the breed needs to do a good amount of research before buying an English mastiff! For those who don't do their homework, I'm not in favor of policing the web and attempting to "educate" them!

 

It's hard enough trying to educate some of those who are already in English mastiffs!

 

Now where did my Kasakhstanian mastiff wander off?.....Here Borat!....Here Borat!

 

 


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For the betterment of the breed

"Above all, a uniform type should be aimed at by breeders and uniformity of type can only exist in a proportionate ratio in the purity and distinctiveness in any breed"!.........M. Moore
"If breeds did not adhere to a specific shape, form, and colour range, or if breeders disregarded this blueprint, the breed would degenerate to the point that it would hardly resemble the breed at all. Selective breeding does not just create breeds- it preserves them as well." Breeding purebred dogs inherently means accepting limitations on your freedom to just breed anything...Catherine McMillan
" A reinforced consolidation of the American and British standards could be the basis for restoring our breed to the gladiatorial glory of its ancient past, in capability if not in usage".....Norman Howard Carp-Gordon
"I can live with doubt, or not knowing, rather than to have answers that might be wrong"...Richard Feynman
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StergoMastiffs

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Reply with quote  #83 

Steve, THANKS FOR THE ENCOURAGEMENT!


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Jennifer W
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StergoMastiffs

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Reply with quote  #84 

PS

It's not hard to educate people that want to learn. 


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Jennifer W
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Reply with quote  #85 

Mastiff Rescue folks are often confronted w/ these "AM's."  I have met some of the most well-educated, well-intentioned families that bought into the "no drooling" hype.  They may not drool, but this particular cross comes w/ a whole host of other problems.  I remember at the 2003 MCOA meeting Dr. Bill Newman lectured on the reasons why it may do our breed good to change the official name from "Mastiff" to "English Mastiff."  I agree with this, as the average public (and often shelters) do tend to group our breed together w/ other molossers and lump them all under the term "Mastiff."  When asked what kind of dog I have, I always answer, "English Mastiff." 

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kandy

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Reply with quote  #86 

I am a bit slow I think   What in the world is an American Mastiff?????????????????

Look I just saw one of those fluffy things a year ago on the pc and thought someone was pulling my leg.  I guessI dont think outside the box enough....forgive my ignorance.


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Massimo Terrore
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Reply with quote  #87 

I'm curious, I look at all the pictures of the EM's & there's alot of them. I see alot of differences between all of your dogs. Now these dogs that candy has look exactly like the AM's from Flying W's farm. Like my Daisy, who is an AM. Most intelligent people know the dogs are not drool less. If you do some research you'll also notice back 200 yrs ago the EM's don't look like the EM's of today, WHY

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steveoifer

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Reply with quote  #88 

200 years ago the mastiff was not a "unified" type.

 

The AM is basically a mastiff cross or mongrelized mastiff.

 

To the untrained eye, the AM can look very much like an EM.

 

A mixture that is, or appears to be incongruous.


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For the betterment of the breed

"Above all, a uniform type should be aimed at by breeders and uniformity of type can only exist in a proportionate ratio in the purity and distinctiveness in any breed"!.........M. Moore
"If breeds did not adhere to a specific shape, form, and colour range, or if breeders disregarded this blueprint, the breed would degenerate to the point that it would hardly resemble the breed at all. Selective breeding does not just create breeds- it preserves them as well." Breeding purebred dogs inherently means accepting limitations on your freedom to just breed anything...Catherine McMillan
" A reinforced consolidation of the American and British standards could be the basis for restoring our breed to the gladiatorial glory of its ancient past, in capability if not in usage".....Norman Howard Carp-Gordon
"I can live with doubt, or not knowing, rather than to have answers that might be wrong"...Richard Feynman
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Reply with quote  #89 

I guess that means that the EM's have changed over time, because the breeding of each EM with another brings out the different genes of whatever mix that was introduced into the gene pool over time. You can see the EM's are different, subtly different.

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Reply with quote  #90 

Homebody's mastiff looks alot different than yours, Steve

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Gina

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Reply with quote  #91 

I'm just catching up with lists. I have been sick for over a week..this one is thread is very interesting and informative.

Poorly bred Mastiffs, or indeed the "American mastiffs" can resembleeach other in terms of well..type. I have seen rescues that barely looked like a Mastiff, the pedigree was so diluted with "crap" or poor breeding practices..breeding mediocre, sub standard Mastiffs that lack bone, head, anything that our breed is famous for..pigment..what you breed is usually what you get. A seasoned, reputable breeder's paramount concern is the welfare and protection of the Mastiff breed. Anyone crossing a Mastiff with an all together diff. breed is nothing more than a charleton, money maker, trying deperately to add to the already burgeonding dog population by making more, more, more...duping the uneducated buyer and giving carte blanche to say..hey it's ok..go ahead and make more.

The AM is noticebly different looking than a true Mastiff..the head says it all..still plain and simple it is a "mix".

Going to some of the websites of the AM shows all the same look..long muzzle, proportions are wrong for Mastiff..

a AM sitting in a Petshop can easily "look" like a Mastiff to a novice. Now with CKC (Continental Kennel Club) registering anything that walks, it's a field day for any mill, mix,..

I guess I DO feel better..LOL..

For the diehard Mastiff fancier and lover of the breed we take it very personally when someone messes with what we consider the ultimate pet, companion and friend for life..

Gina

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steveoifer

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Reply with quote  #92 

I wonder if AM have a fluff problem?


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For the betterment of the breed

"Above all, a uniform type should be aimed at by breeders and uniformity of type can only exist in a proportionate ratio in the purity and distinctiveness in any breed"!.........M. Moore
"If breeds did not adhere to a specific shape, form, and colour range, or if breeders disregarded this blueprint, the breed would degenerate to the point that it would hardly resemble the breed at all. Selective breeding does not just create breeds- it preserves them as well." Breeding purebred dogs inherently means accepting limitations on your freedom to just breed anything...Catherine McMillan
" A reinforced consolidation of the American and British standards could be the basis for restoring our breed to the gladiatorial glory of its ancient past, in capability if not in usage".....Norman Howard Carp-Gordon
"I can live with doubt, or not knowing, rather than to have answers that might be wrong"...Richard Feynman
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kandy

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Reply with quote  #93 

Ok...um.......I still don't know what and AM is? Or what it looks like or what its mixed with? (someone on here called it a mutt).  And I'm not sure but I think someone said my dogs look like AM's on here so does that answer my What does a AM look like question?


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Massimo Terrore
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goldleaf

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Reply with quote  #94 
Hi Kandy,
There is a picture of an AM posted on page one of this thread.  The AM is a cross between the English Mastiff and the Anatolian Shepherd.  You can go to akc.org and read about the Anatolian and see a picture of one there.  That should give you a good idea of what is happening.

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kandy

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Reply with quote  #95 

Gotcha.Thanks.  wow.....I guess the question is now should I be concerned if my dog looks like that like some one stated??? If your dog looks like that does it make it one?


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Massimo Terrore
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goldleaf

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Reply with quote  #96 
No, not at all.  There are many mastiffs that have features more like an AM.  Small build, small bone, long muzzle, lack of pigment.  The list can go on.  It doesn't mean she is half Anatolian.  It almost sounds to me like you're not sure if you have an AM or an English Mastiff.  If this is the case, you should look at her pedigree (one should have been given to you when you bought her).  Do you keep in touch with her breeder?  The breeder should always have the answers for you (hopefully).

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kandy

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Reply with quote  #97 

lol..no no its not that (well I hope not) No Sabrina's Dads side is Gropetti Gargoyle(her great grandpa) and moms side is Deer Run.  My male is MT oaks on one side and Gropetti on the other. We did much research before spending thousands of dollars (and I mean that literally)  I guess my concern is that I have never even heard of a American Mastiff.  I mean are there people out there that try to sell the AM as a registered OM... Yes both my dogs are registered OM's with AKC and DNA'd but Does the AKC ever mess up?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


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Massimo Terrore
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goldleaf

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Reply with quote  #98 
You definately have an EM.  AKC does not register AM's.  I couldn't tell by talking to you if you knew where your doggie came from....sorry.

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kandy

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Reply with quote  #99 

Sorry Jann,

 

I guess since I have never heard of the AM I wanted to know as much as possible. I mean those dogs look alot like the English Mastiff. I mean a lot of female (in their young years) English mastiffs I notice look just like the AM. Now the males don't look the same.  The AM Males  kind of look like great Danes or something and their eyes seem really light.I don't know... But I do have to say that I have learned and discussed some very important topics on here in less then a week then I have on any site  in a year or more.  You all are very informative and I am proud to be apart of this site.

 

Again thanks for having me.


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Massimo Terrore
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Reply with quote  #100 

"Homebody's mastiffs look alot different than your's Steve.

jakecarly"

 

Well, part of that is Steve's avatar pic is distorted and part of it is that my dogs are rescue dogs from a byb. Their pedigrees are a hodgepodge of about every kennel out there. The most recent generations are obviously byb dogs with no thought of breeding besides putting two dogs together. So, they do not have the type that a well-bred dog does. Several generations back in their pedigrees are almost all champion dogs-which goes to show the breeders out there what can happen to their lines if they are not careful who they sell their pups to. I am very fortunate that my dogs appear to be very healthy, which is not the norm for dogs from this kind of situation. I hope they continue to be so as they are very loving companions for me. And, I would much prefer to have them over an "American Mastiff" anyday.

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