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kittykat

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Reply with quote  #26 

If some of these links are repeats, I apologize. I keep them in my favorites folder.

http://www.kifka.com/Elektrik/BloatFirstAid.htm

http://www.vet.purdue.edu/epi/dietrisk.htm

http://www.thepetcenter.com/sur/bloat.html

 

I've lost one dog to bloat. He was a DDB and a rescue. My vet at the time said I could either take him to a hospital up in Seattle or the specialist could come do the surgery at their hospital there. I opted to have the surgery done at my vets since it was so much closer to home. Sammy needed a TPLO. I was working 12 hour night shifts at that time. I took his food and water away at 6pm when I went in to work for the night. The next morning, I came home from work and put him in the car and took him in for his surgery. The surgery lasted 5.5 hours and he came thru it just fine. That evening, before I went to work, I went in to the vet to see him. He was groggy but didn't have his IV in anymore and seemed to be doing ok. I sat with him for a few minutes and left for work. When I got off work in the morning, I called the vet and they said Sammy had a good night but he was dehydrated and his temp was a little low. They were trying to encourage him to drink a little but he wouldn't.

I took a two hour nap and called the vet back and they said he still wouldn't eat or drink and asked me to fix him something special that he might be encouraged to eat. So I fixed some chicken and rice and put some yogurt in it and took that to the vet's. They were just getting him out of his crate to go outside to potty so I took him outside. He peed and then layed down on the grass. It was a pleasant March day, so I sat next to him for a few minutes just petting him and talking to him. They came outside about 5 minutes later and said he needed to come back in and get off the grass as his temp was still low. (Why didn't they tell me that before???) I took him back in and they asked me to try to get him to eat or drink.

He refused the food, but took one lap at the water. At this time, he still didn't have an IV even though he was dehydrated.

He acted like he wanted to rest, so I was just sitting quietly by his crate when he started acting restless. So I called the vet over to tell her I thought he was in pain. They gave him a shot of morphine. After several minutes, he seemed to be getting more and more restless. I called the vet over again and she looked at him and said she thought he was trying to bloat. So, the vet and two techs and I used the corners of his blanket to lift him up onto the xray table. She xrayd him and said he was bloated but didn't think his stomach had twisted yet. So she tried to put a tube down but couldn't pass the tube. I guess his stomach had twisted after all. They hooked up two IV's and we were squeezing the fluids in to try to prevent shock. When I asked them to fix it, they said they didn't have the instruments needed to do bloat surgery. WHAT????? I was shocked that they couldn't do it. They said I'd need to either take him to the emergency vet hospital in Tacoma, almost an hour away, or they could call the specialist who'd done his knee surgery. I didn't want to put him in the back of my pickup where he'd be cold and alone, so I opted to have the specialist come back. He said he'd leave Lynnwood right away and be there as soon as possible. Lynnwood at that time of day would have been 2 hours away. Within 15 minutes of him saying he'd come down though, Sammy started passing blood from his bottom. A few minutes after that, he started having agonal breathing. I just couldn't let him suffer anymore and had to let him go. It was the hardest thing I've ever done in my life but at least he died in my arms. I changed vets after that and you can be sure I made sure my current vets can do anything necessary with giant breeds and know how to do it right.

Sorry for the long post. Even after all these years, I guess I still need to vent about that experience and I still cry over my loss. This was March of 2001.

kat


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goldleaf

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Reply with quote  #27 
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steveoifer

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Reply with quote  #28 

I've mentioned this once before and feel it's worth another mention.

 

What I'm about to suggest may work, or it may not work, but the physics are relatively sound.

 

The stomach can be pictured as an elongated fully blown up "horizontal" balloon, when the dog bloats.

 

Everyone should get a balloon, put some water in it, inflate the balloon and while holding each end tightly, rotate the balloon on a surface, in order to get each end twisted.

 

Now, your balloon should look elongated and full with both ends twisted in the horizontal position. *You can use a spring water bottle as well, just tie rubber bands on each end of the bottle.

 

While holding each end in the horizontal position, the balloon/bottle should remain twisted, with the water lying on the elongated bottom portion of the balloon/bottle.

 

Next, turn the bottle vertical and still maintain the tension on the twisted ends.

 

You should now see the bottle/balloon begin to unwind/untwist!

 

The purpose of this experiment is to demonstrate that the stomach in the horizontal position, once twisted, cannot, or rarely, untwist by itself. But, in the vertical, or upright position there is a chance that it could untwist.

 

The problem is getting that 200lb dog into a standing, or sitting vertical pose. It might take several people to get the dog upright and a makeshift cloth strip muzzle would be wise before attempting the process.

 

Bloat is a fast killer and if the vet is far and you believe the dog is going into shock, you need to do whatever you can in order to untwist the stomach.

 

Even at the vet, the dog is rarely made to go vertical and many vets fail in their efforts to save the dog.

 

Tops spin on their axis and when the stomach is horizontal, it is very hard for it to untwist on its own, in a horizontal mode!

 

Click image for larger version - Name: scan0005.jpg, Views: 48, Size: 318.46 KB  

 


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For the betterment of the breed

"Above all, a uniform type should be aimed at by breeders and uniformity of type can only exist in a proportionate ratio in the purity and distinctiveness in any breed"!.........M. Moore
"If breeds did not adhere to a specific shape, form, and colour range, or if breeders disregarded this blueprint, the breed would degenerate to the point that it would hardly resemble the breed at all. Selective breeding does not just create breeds- it preserves them as well." Breeding purebred dogs inherently means accepting limitations on your freedom to just breed anything...Catherine McMillan
" A reinforced consolidation of the American and British standards could be the basis for restoring our breed to the gladiatorial glory of its ancient past, in capability if not in usage".....Norman Howard Carp-Gordon
"I can live with doubt, or not knowing, rather than to have answers that might be wrong"...Richard Feynman
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oldschool

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Reply with quote  #29 
Steve,

Regarding getting a dog vertical when bloating. We've had several where we caught the beginnings of the bloat and when we got to the vet it was gone. We finally figured out it was the way we were putting the dogs into the Suburban (very high off the ground). We'd put up the front feet first, and then the back feet, and this stretching would straighten things out in the early stages of bloat. So from then on we'd make an effort to mimic this if we had a bloating dog. We'd put their front legs up on a table, or, if Dad was home he'd pick the dogs up high... It does help to do this if you catch it early.

We've found the best way to deal with bloat is to avoid it to begin with... Avoid foods that contain soy, and, of course, follow the standards of no strenuous exercise too close to eating and no gulping down of food/water.

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steveoifer

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Reply with quote  #30 

Good to hear about some validation Jess, thanks!

 

If it saves just one dog....................


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For the betterment of the breed

"Above all, a uniform type should be aimed at by breeders and uniformity of type can only exist in a proportionate ratio in the purity and distinctiveness in any breed"!.........M. Moore
"If breeds did not adhere to a specific shape, form, and colour range, or if breeders disregarded this blueprint, the breed would degenerate to the point that it would hardly resemble the breed at all. Selective breeding does not just create breeds- it preserves them as well." Breeding purebred dogs inherently means accepting limitations on your freedom to just breed anything...Catherine McMillan
" A reinforced consolidation of the American and British standards could be the basis for restoring our breed to the gladiatorial glory of its ancient past, in capability if not in usage".....Norman Howard Carp-Gordon
"I can live with doubt, or not knowing, rather than to have answers that might be wrong"...Richard Feynman
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oldschool

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Reply with quote  #31 
Steve,
I also want to clarify, for any who might misunderstand, that this method is NOT meant to REPLACE veterinary care. It is just a procedure to try, especially if you know you've caught it in the early stages. It can work. However, we ALWAYS would continue bringing our dog to the vet after trying this. It's just that our vet was a 45-minute drive from our house (well...maybe 30-minutes when we had a bloating dog or other emergency) and death before making it there was a real possibility if we didn't try something. This really tended to work when we caught it early. But, not always. Also, we've noticed that once a dog bloats once, even if it is only mildly, they are much more prone to it in the future. Knock wood, once we switched foods to something our gang digested easier, and now on raw, we haven't had to deal with the issue.

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goldleaf

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Reply with quote  #32 


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steveoifer

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Quote:

The pattern suggested that incomplete dominance of a major gene is the mode of inheritance of chest depth/width ratio. The data support the hypothesis that dogs with a deeper chest relative to width are at greater risk of developing bloat than dogs of the same breed with smaller chest depth/width ratios. The pattern for this family will not be complete, however, until all dogs have been followed throughout their lifetime. Breeders who want to do a similar family study can call Dr. Schaible at 812-876-9884.


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For the betterment of the breed

"Above all, a uniform type should be aimed at by breeders and uniformity of type can only exist in a proportionate ratio in the purity and distinctiveness in any breed"!.........M. Moore
"If breeds did not adhere to a specific shape, form, and colour range, or if breeders disregarded this blueprint, the breed would degenerate to the point that it would hardly resemble the breed at all. Selective breeding does not just create breeds- it preserves them as well." Breeding purebred dogs inherently means accepting limitations on your freedom to just breed anything...Catherine McMillan
" A reinforced consolidation of the American and British standards could be the basis for restoring our breed to the gladiatorial glory of its ancient past, in capability if not in usage".....Norman Howard Carp-Gordon
"I can live with doubt, or not knowing, rather than to have answers that might be wrong"...Richard Feynman
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goldleaf

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Reply with quote  #34 
Thanks for posting this Steve!!

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steveoifer

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Reply with quote  #35 
When the stomach twists on itself it can't easily untwist, especially when the dog is standing on 4 legs.

The position of the stomach during bloat, should be viewed much like a filled water balloon that has been held at each end and then rotated.

If that balloon is held horizontally it can never correct for the rotation on its own.

I've experimented a bit and found that the only way to physically rotate the stomach back into its original position would be by standing the dog in an upright position ( on two legs ) and rocking the dog laterally.

From a physics perspective, using the balloon analogy, when you change the horizontal balloon into a vertical balloon it automatically can "untwist".

Perhaps this "Oifer maneuver" can save some lives!

S.O.

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For the betterment of the breed

"Above all, a uniform type should be aimed at by breeders and uniformity of type can only exist in a proportionate ratio in the purity and distinctiveness in any breed"!.........M. Moore
"If breeds did not adhere to a specific shape, form, and colour range, or if breeders disregarded this blueprint, the breed would degenerate to the point that it would hardly resemble the breed at all. Selective breeding does not just create breeds- it preserves them as well." Breeding purebred dogs inherently means accepting limitations on your freedom to just breed anything...Catherine McMillan
" A reinforced consolidation of the American and British standards could be the basis for restoring our breed to the gladiatorial glory of its ancient past, in capability if not in usage".....Norman Howard Carp-Gordon
"I can live with doubt, or not knowing, rather than to have answers that might be wrong"...Richard Feynman
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Canine Gastric Dilatation-Volvulus (Bloat) 

School of Veterinary Medicine 

Purdue University, West Lafayette, IN 47907-1243

Non-dietary risk factors for gastric dilatation-volvulus in large and giant breed dogs

Lawrence T. Glickman, VMD, DrPH; Nita W. Glickman, MS, MPH; Diana B. Schellenberg, MS; 
Malathi Raghavan, DVM, MS; Tana Lee, BA

Summary of findings (references 1 & 2) -A 5-year prospective study was conducted to determine the incidence and non-dietary risk factors for gastric dilatation-volvulus (GDV) in 11 large- and giant-breed dogs and to assess current recommendations to prevent GDV. During the study, 21 (2.4%) and 20 (2.7%) of the large and giant breed dogs, respectively, had at least 1 episode of GDV per year of observation and 29.6% of these dogs died. Increasing age, increasing thorax depth/width ratio, having a first degree relative with a history of GDV, a faster speed of eating, and using a raised feed bowl, were associated with an increased incidence of GDV. Table 1 summarizes the magnitude and direction of GDV risk associated with having each of these factors. The relative risk (RR) indicates the likelihood of developing the disease in the exposed group (risk factor present) relative to those who are not exposed (risk factor absent). For example, a dog with a first degree relative with a history of GDV is 1.63 times (63%) more likely to develop GDV than a dog without a history of GDV. As another example, if dog ‘A’ is a year older than dog ‘B’, then dog ‘A’ is 1.20 times (20%) more likely to develop GDV than dog ‘B’. 

 

Risk FactorRelative RiskInterpretation
Age in years1.2020% increase in risk for each year increase in age
Chest depth/width ratio
(1.0 to 2.4)
2.70170% increase in risk for each unit increase in chest depth/width ratio
First degree relative with GDV (yes vs. no)1.6363% increase in risk associated with having a first degree relative with GDV
Using a raised feed bowl
(yes vs. no)
2.10110% increase in risk associated with using a raised food bowl
Speed of eating (1-10 scale)
[for Large dogs only]
1.1515% increase in risk for each unit increase in speed of eating score for large dogs

Most of the popular methods currently recommended to prevent GDV did not appear to be effective, and one of these, raising the feed bowl, may actually be detrimental in the breeds studied.In order to decrease the incidence of GDV, we suggest that dogs having a first degree relative with a history of GDV should not be bred.Prophylactic gastropexy appears indicated for breeds at the highest risk of GDV, such as the Great Dane. 


References:

1. Lawrence T. Glickman, VMD, DrPH; Nita W. Glickman, MS, MPH; Diana B. Schellenberg, MS; Malathi Raghavan, DVM, MS; Tana Lee, BA. Incidence of and breed-related risk factors for gastric dilatation-volvulus in dogs.Journal of the American Veterinary Medical Association, 2000;216(1):40-45. 

2. Lawrence T. Glickman, VMD, DrPH; Nita W. Glickman, MS, MPH; Diana B. Schellenberg, MS; Malathi Raghavan, DVM, MS; Tana Lee, BA. Non-dietary risk factors for gastric dilatation-volvulus in large and giant breed dogs. Journal of the American Veterinary Medical Association, 2000;217(10):1492-1499. 


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For the betterment of the breed

"Above all, a uniform type should be aimed at by breeders and uniformity of type can only exist in a proportionate ratio in the purity and distinctiveness in any breed"!.........M. Moore
"If breeds did not adhere to a specific shape, form, and colour range, or if breeders disregarded this blueprint, the breed would degenerate to the point that it would hardly resemble the breed at all. Selective breeding does not just create breeds- it preserves them as well." Breeding purebred dogs inherently means accepting limitations on your freedom to just breed anything...Catherine McMillan
" A reinforced consolidation of the American and British standards could be the basis for restoring our breed to the gladiatorial glory of its ancient past, in capability if not in usage".....Norman Howard Carp-Gordon
"I can live with doubt, or not knowing, rather than to have answers that might be wrong"...Richard Feynman
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steveoifer

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Reply with quote  #37 

Bloat is the common term for Gastric Dilation-Torsion Complex.
This condition involves the swelling of the stomach from gas, fluid or both.
Bloat is a Veterinary Emergency!!!
There are no home remedies.
Symptoms can be subtle. Learn to recognize them.

  • Paces around continuously, or, lies down in odd places
  • Salavating, panting, whining
  • Acts as if he can't get comfortable
  • Acts agitated
  • Unproductive vomiting or retching (the dog may produce frothy foamy vomit in small quanties)
  • Excessive drooling, usually accompanied by retching noises
  • Swelling in abdominal area (may or may not be noticeable)

If you see ANY combination of these symptoms, CALL YOUR VET and get the dog...there as fast as possible.

Bloat is LIFE-THREATENING. Do not wait until you see/feel an enlarged stomach!

See the excerpt from Perdue University's Bloat Notes below for details.

Excellent information, statistics, research.

A Message to Dog Owners from the Director of the Purdue Bloat Research Program

Excerpt from Bloat Notes, January 1997
(note: permission to reprint is given by the author)

Several times a week I receive a phone call from someone whose dog has died of bloat. Usually my role is to provide a sympathetic ear and assure the callers that there was nothing they could have changed to prevent the incident. Our current knowledge of bloat does not allow us to identify specific events that trigger an acute episode in susceptible dogs, although some form of "stress" was probably involved. One of our long-term research objectives is to better define what constitutes stress for dogs and to measure their physiological response to it. However, the primary goal of the research is to determine why some dogs are more susceptible to bloat than others, i.e., what are the risk factors for bloat. This has led to studies of the physical conformation of dogs, their diet, vaccination histories, and even to new ways to evaluate a dogís temperament and personality.

The overall bloat fatality rate approaches 30% for dogs with a dilated, rotated stomach. Approximately half of the dogs that die with a rotated stomach will do so before veterinary medical or surgical treatment is obtained. Dogs may be found dead or die on the way to the hospital, or may be euthanized by the veterinarian because of their poor prognosis or the owner's financial considerations. In contrast, dogs properly treated have [greater than] 80% probability of surviving a bloat episode and then leading a normal life. Veterinarians over the past 2 decades have reduced dramatically the postoperative fatality rate from gastric dilatation-volvulus (GDV) from [greater than]50% to [less than]20% by using improved therapy for shock, safer anesthetic agents, and better surgical techniques.

Too often, however, owners of dogs that died of bloat tell me that they had recognized that the dog had a serious problem and rushed the dog to a veterinarian, only to be told that it was probably only a "belly ache," or that the dog's stomach was dilated, but not rotated. Sometimes the veterinarian recognized dilatation, but not a rotation (volvulus, torsion), passed a stomach tube to relieve the pressure, and sent the dog home. Or the dog was diagnosed as having dilatation and rotation, and a stomach tube was passed to relieve the pressure, but surgery (gastropexy) to permanently correct the rotation was delayed, either because the dog was thought to be too ill to withstand the surgery, or the veterinarian was not adequately equipped or prepared at the time to perform the operation. The latter may occur if the veterinarian is in the midst of busy office hours or if -- especially at night -- there is insufficient technical help available to properly perform the surgery, which requires careful administration of anesthesia, appropriate fluid therapy, and close monitoring of the dog's vital signs.

Numerous clinical reports from Europe and the United States show that gastropexy to prevent gastric rotation should be performed as soon as possible following stomach decompression on all dogs with gastric dilatation, whether or not the stomach is thought to be rotated at the time. The recurrence rate of gastric volvulus in dogs treated for bloat conservatively, i.e., without surgery, approaches 100%, whereas the recurrence rate following gastropexy is [less than]5%. The stomach of a dog that has had a gastropexy can still dilate, but it is unlikely to rotate, so if dilatation does occur after gastropexy, it can probably be treated conservatively.

What does all this mean to you? If your dog suddenly develops a distended abdomen, appears uncomfortable, and gets progressively worse, rush the dog to a veterinarian, preferably one equipped to do emergency surgery. Gastric distention is a life-threatening condition, even if the stomach has not rotated. Immediate decompression is required to relieve pressure on blood vessels and to restore circulation to the heart, because shock can occur within minutes of the first clinical signs. Fluid therapy is indicated to treat shock, and drugs may be needed if the heart rhythm is irregular. This should be followed as soon as possible by surgery to reposition and immobilize (gastropexy) the stomach before it is irreversibly damaged. The best indicators of how well the dog will do postoperatively are its physical condition (state of shock) prior to surgery and the appearance of the stomach during surgery (since dead or dying stomach tissue implies a very poor prognosis). Intensive monitoring is usually required for several days postoperatively in case complications occur.

If you suspect your dog has bloat, but the veterinarian dismisses it as a minor problem, inquire about radiographs to rule out GDV. If dilatation with or without volvulus is diagnosed and the stomach is decompressed, either by passing a stomach tube or by piercing the stomach with a large needle (trochar) passed through the body wall, the dog should be considered as a candidate for immediate surgery, unless its condition is too unstable to tolerate anesthesia. If the veterinarian recommends that surgery be delayed for any other reason, seek a second opinion immediately. Delay in surgery will increase the chance of the stomach rotating if it hasn't already, or will decrease the chance of the dog surviving if rotation has occurred.

Following is an excerpt of a letter that illustrates some of these points. "I noticed Kelly [an Irish Setter] attempting to vomit with nothing coming up. Grass? Chicken bone? I watched her and we continued to walk. She was happy and greeted people, wagging her tail, ... and had fun. We went home and Kelly went upstairs where she attempted to vomit several times. I immediately called my vet. Kelly and I arrived at the veterinarian's office within five minutes of the phone call. I told the veterinarian that Kelly had vomited two or three times with nothing coming up. I said that she looked a little broad around the ribs. The veterinarian did a physical examination and concluded that Kelly's problem was just a "stomach ache." ... I was directed to give her Pepto Bismol®. I took Kelly home and she lay down on the bed. About 45 minutes later she went out to the back yard. When I went out 10 minutes later, I found her bloated up. I grabbed her, took her back to the veterinary hospital, but she died on the operating table." (Comment: There is no guarantee that if radiographs had been taken during the first veterinary visit, Kelly's outcome would have been different. However, radiographs might have confirmed the presence of gastric dilatation or volvulus, and thus the need for immediate gastric decompression and surgery.) Be prepared -- Teamwork between you and your veterinarian is your dog's best hope when it comes to bloat.

For more information on the early signs of bloat, talk with your veterinarian. Ask what treatment he/she recommends for bloat, and if their hospital has a 24-hour emergency service.

--Larry Glickman, VMD, DrPh


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For the betterment of the breed

"Above all, a uniform type should be aimed at by breeders and uniformity of type can only exist in a proportionate ratio in the purity and distinctiveness in any breed"!.........M. Moore
"If breeds did not adhere to a specific shape, form, and colour range, or if breeders disregarded this blueprint, the breed would degenerate to the point that it would hardly resemble the breed at all. Selective breeding does not just create breeds- it preserves them as well." Breeding purebred dogs inherently means accepting limitations on your freedom to just breed anything...Catherine McMillan
" A reinforced consolidation of the American and British standards could be the basis for restoring our breed to the gladiatorial glory of its ancient past, in capability if not in usage".....Norman Howard Carp-Gordon
"I can live with doubt, or not knowing, rather than to have answers that might be wrong"...Richard Feynman
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Reply with quote  #38 
As someone who is considering buying our very first Mastiff, bloat is a very scary issue -- and one of the reasons we have not yet made a puppy purchase. I have been trying to do as much research on this issue as I can, over the years. I've read the books, lurked on threads, spoken to breeders -- there seems to be no real concensus about how to prevent bloat, which scares me. I'd feel a lot more confident in owning a Mastiff if I knew what to do or NOT do, in order to prevent this issue from arising.  

Questions:
1 -Probiotics-

I am curious to know if the dogs who have had bloat issues, have ever been on regular probiotic dosings or not.  I have found probiotics to be the single most important supplement for my small dog's digestive issues (she used to have a very gurgly tummy, burped a lot after eating, and had a host of other diet related issues). Once I began the probiotics, after about 6 mos, all her tummy issues stopped.

Does anyone know if probiotics can help prevent the bloat issue that so many large chested dogs face?

2-Eat standing up on raised feeder, or eat while lying down,  or just eat in normal position (bowl on floor, while dog is standing)?

I've been told all 3 of the above. There seems to be no single rule of thumb. What has been the experience of those who had dogs bloat? Did the dogs eat in a certain position? Or does that really not matter? (I've also been told it's more about not letting the dog exercise right before or after eating, and not to allow the dog to drink lots of water right after eating). I find this confusing, because others have said you should "water the food down". ?? Isn't that contradictory? *confused*

3- Wet food down, or eat dry food? (see comment at end of Q #2, above)

4- Would digestive enzymes help in preventing bloat (along with the probiotics)?
Does anyone know if the dogs who have bloated in the past, have also ever been given digestive enzymes or not?

Thanks for any info. Bloat just worries me so much, as I've never owned a breed that was predisposed to it. *worry wart here*

~Pam



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steveoifer

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Reply with quote  #39 
Many large breeds are subject to this condition, so if you like mastiffs, then don't let it stand in your way.

Find lines that have been relatively free of this disorder and read the Purdue bloat study.

Also read all bloat related threads by going to our search engine and type in "bloat".

they list some of the issues you've raised including dog bowl height.



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For the betterment of the breed

"Above all, a uniform type should be aimed at by breeders and uniformity of type can only exist in a proportionate ratio in the purity and distinctiveness in any breed"!.........M. Moore
"If breeds did not adhere to a specific shape, form, and colour range, or if breeders disregarded this blueprint, the breed would degenerate to the point that it would hardly resemble the breed at all. Selective breeding does not just create breeds- it preserves them as well." Breeding purebred dogs inherently means accepting limitations on your freedom to just breed anything...Catherine McMillan
" A reinforced consolidation of the American and British standards could be the basis for restoring our breed to the gladiatorial glory of its ancient past, in capability if not in usage".....Norman Howard Carp-Gordon
"I can live with doubt, or not knowing, rather than to have answers that might be wrong"...Richard Feynman
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steveoifer

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Reply with quote  #40 
 


Please remember to keep this handy in case bloat occurs!


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For the betterment of the breed

"Above all, a uniform type should be aimed at by breeders and uniformity of type can only exist in a proportionate ratio in the purity and distinctiveness in any breed"!.........M. Moore
"If breeds did not adhere to a specific shape, form, and colour range, or if breeders disregarded this blueprint, the breed would degenerate to the point that it would hardly resemble the breed at all. Selective breeding does not just create breeds- it preserves them as well." Breeding purebred dogs inherently means accepting limitations on your freedom to just breed anything...Catherine McMillan
" A reinforced consolidation of the American and British standards could be the basis for restoring our breed to the gladiatorial glory of its ancient past, in capability if not in usage".....Norman Howard Carp-Gordon
"I can live with doubt, or not knowing, rather than to have answers that might be wrong"...Richard Feynman
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steveoifer

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Reply with quote  #41 
Dr. D. Twedt was involved with the study done on bloat funded by the Morris Animal Foundation. I sent him the technique illustrated in an earlier post above and this is his response and my follow up response.....

Quote:
In my experience that will sometimes work but many times it does not.
  I advise with any bloating dogs get a gastropexy to prevent from
reoccuring.  I often suggest prophylactic gastropexy in lines having
problems.   We usually do it via laparoscopy a quick 30 min procedure..
  Research needed though there is some evidence that motility may play a role.

David C. Twedt DVM, Diplomate ACVIM
Professor and Small Animal Section Chief
Department of Clinical Sciences
College of Veterinary Medicine and Biomedical Sciences
Colorado State University
Fort Collins, CO 80523


"As we both know, there is a short timeline between onset and death, if some type of immediate intervention is not available. Very often a vet is not close by, or available at certain hours. Gastropexy will certainly help down the road, but when bloat initially occurs the average owner is clueless & helpless at that moment. I agree with prophylactic measures, but often there is little history of prior bloating within the line in question. Do you feel that hyper-motility might be a factor and if so, would a "slowing down" of motility through a Librax type of product be indicated in high risk candidates?"

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For the betterment of the breed

"Above all, a uniform type should be aimed at by breeders and uniformity of type can only exist in a proportionate ratio in the purity and distinctiveness in any breed"!.........M. Moore
"If breeds did not adhere to a specific shape, form, and colour range, or if breeders disregarded this blueprint, the breed would degenerate to the point that it would hardly resemble the breed at all. Selective breeding does not just create breeds- it preserves them as well." Breeding purebred dogs inherently means accepting limitations on your freedom to just breed anything...Catherine McMillan
" A reinforced consolidation of the American and British standards could be the basis for restoring our breed to the gladiatorial glory of its ancient past, in capability if not in usage".....Norman Howard Carp-Gordon
"I can live with doubt, or not knowing, rather than to have answers that might be wrong"...Richard Feynman
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Reply with quote  #42 
Steve, I know you're not the biggest fan of raw feeding but I'm finding that there is little to no gas coming out of the dog, the occasional burp right after eating and hardly ever any farts - it is also said that kibble takes 4 hours to digest and only about 80 minutes for raw food .... water consumption is minimal, now that it's winter his water bowl is hardly ever used, it's going a long way in easing some of my bloat worries.
Just thought I'd share.


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steveoifer

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Reply with quote  #43 

I never condemned raw feeding!


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For the betterment of the breed

"Above all, a uniform type should be aimed at by breeders and uniformity of type can only exist in a proportionate ratio in the purity and distinctiveness in any breed"!.........M. Moore
"If breeds did not adhere to a specific shape, form, and colour range, or if breeders disregarded this blueprint, the breed would degenerate to the point that it would hardly resemble the breed at all. Selective breeding does not just create breeds- it preserves them as well." Breeding purebred dogs inherently means accepting limitations on your freedom to just breed anything...Catherine McMillan
" A reinforced consolidation of the American and British standards could be the basis for restoring our breed to the gladiatorial glory of its ancient past, in capability if not in usage".....Norman Howard Carp-Gordon
"I can live with doubt, or not knowing, rather than to have answers that might be wrong"...Richard Feynman
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Reply with quote  #44 
Read what I said!!!!!! LOL
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steveoifer

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Reply with quote  #45 

Nor am I negative on it!


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For the betterment of the breed

"Above all, a uniform type should be aimed at by breeders and uniformity of type can only exist in a proportionate ratio in the purity and distinctiveness in any breed"!.........M. Moore
"If breeds did not adhere to a specific shape, form, and colour range, or if breeders disregarded this blueprint, the breed would degenerate to the point that it would hardly resemble the breed at all. Selective breeding does not just create breeds- it preserves them as well." Breeding purebred dogs inherently means accepting limitations on your freedom to just breed anything...Catherine McMillan
" A reinforced consolidation of the American and British standards could be the basis for restoring our breed to the gladiatorial glory of its ancient past, in capability if not in usage".....Norman Howard Carp-Gordon
"I can live with doubt, or not knowing, rather than to have answers that might be wrong"...Richard Feynman
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steveoifer

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Reply with quote  #46 

Nor am I negative on it!


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For the betterment of the breed

"Above all, a uniform type should be aimed at by breeders and uniformity of type can only exist in a proportionate ratio in the purity and distinctiveness in any breed"!.........M. Moore
"If breeds did not adhere to a specific shape, form, and colour range, or if breeders disregarded this blueprint, the breed would degenerate to the point that it would hardly resemble the breed at all. Selective breeding does not just create breeds- it preserves them as well." Breeding purebred dogs inherently means accepting limitations on your freedom to just breed anything...Catherine McMillan
" A reinforced consolidation of the American and British standards could be the basis for restoring our breed to the gladiatorial glory of its ancient past, in capability if not in usage".....Norman Howard Carp-Gordon
"I can live with doubt, or not knowing, rather than to have answers that might be wrong"...Richard Feynman
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Reply with quote  #47 

It Simply Works

By C.A. Krowzack, DVM

 

In February of 1998, the Great Lakes Irish Wolfhound Association (GLIWA) held their annual meeting. The meeting is an occasion for fellowship of the members, the club attends to business and also hosts a speaker on a special topic. In the past it has been obedience, therapy dog training, and this year the topic was acupuncture.

Dr. Debbie Mitchell gave an overview of what acupuncture is, its history and its medical uses.

Then, using a member’s dog, showed the participants several acupuncture/acupressure points that they could utilize. One point was to stimulate gastrointestinal motility to combat bloat.

This week at my clinic, a GLIWA member brought her wolfhound in for an examination. During the night Quinn had begun experiencing discomfort. He sleeps in the bedroom with his owners. The husband had worked a long day and was asleep, but the wife was awakened by the restless behavior of Quinn. When she petted him she found his abdomen severely enlarged and hard to the touch. She knew it was bloat, but didn’t know what to do. She is a small woman, and Quinn a large dog. She remembered the acupressure point Dr. Mitchell had shown and began massaging it. Within a few minutes, Quinn began passing "a lot of gas" and his abdomen became smaller and softer. The husband and wife brought Quinn in the next morning to make sure he was all right, and because he had diarrhea.

On examination, Quinn was completely normal. He was not experiencing discomfort upon palpation, and no abnormalities beside the diarrhea could be found. Because she remembered the acupressure point, the wife had saved Quinn’s life. The acupressure point is on the hind leg. If you start at the hock, on the front of the leg (anterior) you can feel the tibia. Move your hand up the leg along the tibia’s sharp crest; what in humans would be called the shin. As your hand approaches the stifle, or the "knee" the crest becomes very pronounced and then curls around to the outside (laterally). Just inside this curve is a depression. The acupressure point is in this depression. An acupuncturist might insert a needle into this spot, or inject a liquid, but, as Quinn’s owners will attest, massaging also stimulates the point. The gastrointestinal tract starts to contract and move (peristalsis) and expels the built up gas before torsion can occur. If torsion has occurred, massaging the spot will not help.

I don’t recommend this procedure instead of veterinary treatment, but begun early, or on the way for veterinary treatment, can save your hound’s life!

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Reply with quote  #48 
nux vomica is a homeopathic remedy that can be given at first sign and at 15 minute intervals while on your way to the vet. Everyone should have some for emergency.


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steveoifer

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Reply with quote  #49 

If the point of entry from the esophogus is twisted, then it's best not to put anything down the throat, because nothing will get in.


__________________
For the betterment of the breed

"Above all, a uniform type should be aimed at by breeders and uniformity of type can only exist in a proportionate ratio in the purity and distinctiveness in any breed"!.........M. Moore
"If breeds did not adhere to a specific shape, form, and colour range, or if breeders disregarded this blueprint, the breed would degenerate to the point that it would hardly resemble the breed at all. Selective breeding does not just create breeds- it preserves them as well." Breeding purebred dogs inherently means accepting limitations on your freedom to just breed anything...Catherine McMillan
" A reinforced consolidation of the American and British standards could be the basis for restoring our breed to the gladiatorial glory of its ancient past, in capability if not in usage".....Norman Howard Carp-Gordon
"I can live with doubt, or not knowing, rather than to have answers that might be wrong"...Richard Feynman
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Reply with quote  #50 
Steve they are the smallest of tea pills that get dissolved in the mouth.
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