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steveoifer

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Reply with quote  #26 

My friend's apricot male. Anybody want to critique?


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For the betterment of the breed

"Above all, a uniform type should be aimed at by breeders and uniformity of type can only exist in a proportionate ratio in the purity and distinctiveness in any breed"!.........M. Moore
"If breeds did not adhere to a specific shape, form, and colour range, or if breeders disregarded this blueprint, the breed would degenerate to the point that it would hardly resemble the breed at all. Selective breeding does not just create breeds- it preserves them as well." Breeding purebred dogs inherently means accepting limitations on your freedom to just breed anything...Catherine McMillan
" A reinforced consolidation of the American and British standards could be the basis for restoring our breed to the gladiatorial glory of its ancient past, in capability if not in usage".....Norman Howard Carp-Gordon
"I can live with doubt, or not knowing, rather than to have answers that might be wrong"...Richard Feynman
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LazarusMastiffs

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Reply with quote  #27 

Nana Nana boo boo.  Can't catch me.  LOL


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Chris Murphy
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steveoifer

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Reply with quote  #28 

What about this fine fellow?


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For the betterment of the breed

"Above all, a uniform type should be aimed at by breeders and uniformity of type can only exist in a proportionate ratio in the purity and distinctiveness in any breed"!.........M. Moore
"If breeds did not adhere to a specific shape, form, and colour range, or if breeders disregarded this blueprint, the breed would degenerate to the point that it would hardly resemble the breed at all. Selective breeding does not just create breeds- it preserves them as well." Breeding purebred dogs inherently means accepting limitations on your freedom to just breed anything...Catherine McMillan
" A reinforced consolidation of the American and British standards could be the basis for restoring our breed to the gladiatorial glory of its ancient past, in capability if not in usage".....Norman Howard Carp-Gordon
"I can live with doubt, or not knowing, rather than to have answers that might be wrong"...Richard Feynman
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steveoifer

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Reply with quote  #29 

They are two different dogs!


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For the betterment of the breed

"Above all, a uniform type should be aimed at by breeders and uniformity of type can only exist in a proportionate ratio in the purity and distinctiveness in any breed"!.........M. Moore
"If breeds did not adhere to a specific shape, form, and colour range, or if breeders disregarded this blueprint, the breed would degenerate to the point that it would hardly resemble the breed at all. Selective breeding does not just create breeds- it preserves them as well." Breeding purebred dogs inherently means accepting limitations on your freedom to just breed anything...Catherine McMillan
" A reinforced consolidation of the American and British standards could be the basis for restoring our breed to the gladiatorial glory of its ancient past, in capability if not in usage".....Norman Howard Carp-Gordon
"I can live with doubt, or not knowing, rather than to have answers that might be wrong"...Richard Feynman
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LEXIMSTF

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Reply with quote  #30 

 

Not to mention TWO different BREEDS! 

 

Steve -- did you start this thread just to try and trick people and further your agenda?

 

 


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Erica Tortorella
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steveoifer

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Reply with quote  #31 
Just what "agenda" is that Erica?
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For the betterment of the breed

"Above all, a uniform type should be aimed at by breeders and uniformity of type can only exist in a proportionate ratio in the purity and distinctiveness in any breed"!.........M. Moore
"If breeds did not adhere to a specific shape, form, and colour range, or if breeders disregarded this blueprint, the breed would degenerate to the point that it would hardly resemble the breed at all. Selective breeding does not just create breeds- it preserves them as well." Breeding purebred dogs inherently means accepting limitations on your freedom to just breed anything...Catherine McMillan
" A reinforced consolidation of the American and British standards could be the basis for restoring our breed to the gladiatorial glory of its ancient past, in capability if not in usage".....Norman Howard Carp-Gordon
"I can live with doubt, or not knowing, rather than to have answers that might be wrong"...Richard Feynman
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steveoifer

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Reply with quote  #32 

Many newbies and intermediates alike need to develop an "eye".

 

My "agenda" is to get them to see the differences between mastiffs & mastiffs and mastiffs & bullmastiffs and Dogue de Bordeaux's & mastiffs!

 

On another forum in the past, I recolored a Saint and asked for a critique as well. It's a good learning tool and we all could use a lesson in humility at times!

 

If I just tell you in advance what you are looking at, how can one discover the special features which make mastiffs.... mastiffs?


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For the betterment of the breed

"Above all, a uniform type should be aimed at by breeders and uniformity of type can only exist in a proportionate ratio in the purity and distinctiveness in any breed"!.........M. Moore
"If breeds did not adhere to a specific shape, form, and colour range, or if breeders disregarded this blueprint, the breed would degenerate to the point that it would hardly resemble the breed at all. Selective breeding does not just create breeds- it preserves them as well." Breeding purebred dogs inherently means accepting limitations on your freedom to just breed anything...Catherine McMillan
" A reinforced consolidation of the American and British standards could be the basis for restoring our breed to the gladiatorial glory of its ancient past, in capability if not in usage".....Norman Howard Carp-Gordon
"I can live with doubt, or not knowing, rather than to have answers that might be wrong"...Richard Feynman
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steveoifer

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Reply with quote  #33 

Nancy,

 

The first dog is a dogue and the second a bullmastiff!


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For the betterment of the breed

"Above all, a uniform type should be aimed at by breeders and uniformity of type can only exist in a proportionate ratio in the purity and distinctiveness in any breed"!.........M. Moore
"If breeds did not adhere to a specific shape, form, and colour range, or if breeders disregarded this blueprint, the breed would degenerate to the point that it would hardly resemble the breed at all. Selective breeding does not just create breeds- it preserves them as well." Breeding purebred dogs inherently means accepting limitations on your freedom to just breed anything...Catherine McMillan
" A reinforced consolidation of the American and British standards could be the basis for restoring our breed to the gladiatorial glory of its ancient past, in capability if not in usage".....Norman Howard Carp-Gordon
"I can live with doubt, or not knowing, rather than to have answers that might be wrong"...Richard Feynman
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Monica

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Reply with quote  #34 

Steve, in that case, would you think it good to start a thread on DIFFERENT BREEDS and under that thread you could post pictures of some of the dogs that you feel have influenced today's mastiffs?  I for one would be interested in seeing the different breeds "with their breed name..." under them and seeing them on one thread so I could look at them all together.  I would enjoy this for historical educational purposes.  That way some can look if they are interested... 

 

 


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Monica
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steveoifer

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Reply with quote  #35 

Well Monica, anyone can do a google on the dogue, bullmastiff or Saint. Once there you can hit images and get hundreds of pics.

 

Perhaps a thread on more subtle influences might be in order. I'll give it some thought, thanks!

 

Keep in mind that some might get offended with my "conclusions"!...LOL

 

 


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For the betterment of the breed

"Above all, a uniform type should be aimed at by breeders and uniformity of type can only exist in a proportionate ratio in the purity and distinctiveness in any breed"!.........M. Moore
"If breeds did not adhere to a specific shape, form, and colour range, or if breeders disregarded this blueprint, the breed would degenerate to the point that it would hardly resemble the breed at all. Selective breeding does not just create breeds- it preserves them as well." Breeding purebred dogs inherently means accepting limitations on your freedom to just breed anything...Catherine McMillan
" A reinforced consolidation of the American and British standards could be the basis for restoring our breed to the gladiatorial glory of its ancient past, in capability if not in usage".....Norman Howard Carp-Gordon
"I can live with doubt, or not knowing, rather than to have answers that might be wrong"...Richard Feynman
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Monica

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Reply with quote  #36 

I hear you and yes I've googled and have had four windows open at once as I hop back and forth.  I just thought maybe it would be good to have them all stacked on top of each other along with your point, but maybe you don't want to make your point that clear - that would go back to the spoon feeding notion eh ;-) 


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Monica
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brandig

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Reply with quote  #37 

hey i got the bullie!! go me go me!! but i new something was diff about the dogue but i thought it was a diff looking mastiff. there are SO many differant looking "mastiffs" how did we get so many differances? everyone breeding for their own lines i guess??!!


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Hair? what hair? i dont see any hair!!
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brandig

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Reply with quote  #38 

thanks about the comments on angel. i think the same but teresa brought it to my attention a while back that her muzzle it too long. i knew her face was off a bit but i couldn't figure out what it was until she said it. it is about 3/4 to 1 inch too long. her pigment could be darker as well to me but she will darken up. she is also hyper i swear she is adhd!!


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Hair? what hair? i dont see any hair!!
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brandig

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Reply with quote  #39 

i have never seen a fluff and i meant shorter not longer of course but i would love to see pics of him with all of his winter coat on. i have heard they are very pretty!! a friend of mine knows a person whom has one!! 


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Hair? what hair? i dont see any hair!!
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Reply with quote  #40 

I knew what they were but didn't want to start anything

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LazarusMastiffs

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Reply with quote  #41 

Yeah, I caught it, but I didn't want to keep him from doing what he wanted.  LOL  That's what the Nanny boo boo, can't catch me meant.  LOL  I tried to give a hint.


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Chris Murphy
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LazarusMastiffs

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Reply with quote  #42 

I wouldn't worry about it.  Although they are not English mastiffs, they are breeds that are very closely related.  The type of those dogs is just as close(and sadly closer) to a correct mastiff as many mastiffs being bred today!  Because of the diversity in the breed, new breeders jumping in, fairly recent intoduction of other breeds and puppy mills, there are many mastiffs that look like dogues, bulls, saints and danes!  That is why this is such a hard breed to take on.  I think Steve was just trying to get this point across.  I think that it worked.  I am sure that when several people saw those on a mastiff board, they didn't think twice.  If I did not read any of is previous posts and guessed what he was doing, I would have just critqued them.  After all, neither of those two dogs would have been excused from a ring if they were bigger.  It is sad that there is that much diversity, but it is true.  Some people even prefer the Dane look which is a complete opposite type than that of those more closely related like the bull.  With the right handler, you could have finished that bull mastiff, if it was a girl, since his stop is not as sharp as some.  The boy is dome headed, lacks pigment and is high in the rear, but if you made him taller, the right handler could finish him as well.  I think it says more about how closely related the breeds are than anything else though.  I would hope to see some resemblences of a mastiff in breeds that are created from them!!!  I guess that is a long winded way of saying, dont feel bad, we all saw the same faults and similarities.  Some of us just had Steve's post figured out.  LOL


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Chris Murphy
Lazarus and Surazal Mastiffs
Helping preserve Old English type in the U.S. http://www.lazarusmastiffs.com
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Reply with quote  #43 
I got my first bullmastiff in 90 and turner and hooch came out in 89...let me tell you it was annoying!!!!! IS THAT THE DOG FROM TURNER AND HOOCH????
No, no, no,no.....details people, details - no everyone is a "mastiff" geek like us.
So no, Steve can't fool me with these ones - the colored saint on the other hand...

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Wendy

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Reply with quote  #44 

 

 

 

Can someone please advise me on how to put a photo on here from my own files. I clicked on the insert image button but it is asking for a URL which I do not have as I am trying to load it from my documents.

 

Thank you

Wendy

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Reply with quote  #45 

Okay, this is a post for Wendy!!


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Wendy

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Reply with quote  #46 

Thank you Teresa for posting the photo for me. I will get my computer checked to find out why it is blocking me from putting the  photos on.

 

Really appreciate it.

Wendy

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goldleaf

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Reply with quote  #47 
Bump
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goldleaf

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Reply with quote  #48 
Bumping to save topic
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madchemist

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Reply with quote  #49 

I would like an honest critique of my boy Tank

 

12 months next to the fence

16 months with Sam



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Gina

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Reply with quote  #50 

Hi List,

Been having some problems and looks like more orthopedic surgery for me..but I miss this lively discussion.(I'll do a new thread for meeeself)

Anyway, what this thread is trying to "show" is wonderful. For NOVICE owners, breeders, and all of us. In the breed for almost 20 years and I am still amazed at the changes, type differences and overall disaster our Mastiff Breed is taking...too many, too many ...

Steve is using the pictures that you or anyone presents on here as a learning tool to educate (with a little twinkle in his obvious seasoned Mastiff eye) the list. Only by displaying these various breeds, faults, gorgeousness, and yes SHERMAN can we somehow get a good looksee into what the Mastiff is going through ...

Although I have not ever bred a litter, it does not take a rocket scientist to know what is correct, what is a serious "fault" deeming your Mastiff "pet quality" from "show potential" ..fluffy, monorchid, lack of pigment, lack of bone, straight behind, loaded in front, over done, tuck up, kinky tail, gay tail, sloppy topline, movement, substance, symetry, balance, well let down in front, slabsided... there is a multitude of terms, expressions, and Mastiff "lingo" for the benefit and chagrin of Mastiff folks...yes NEW and USED (I'm the later)

I would love to see a dictionary or questions and answers (kinda like Jeopardy) for fun and educational purpose...of course like Alex Treebek, we have that OTHER famous Canadian...Steve..

thanks Steve, this thread brought me back to life...LOL..

hugs all around,

OFA dropout, old veteran,

Gina

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