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steveoifer

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This thread is meant for the amateur as well as the experienced handler, who owner show their dogs in competition. Anyone with "inside" tips are welcome to share their "secrets" with the rest of the group!

Personal experience, as well as learned, or taught showmanship is sincerely welcome................


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For the betterment of the breed

"Above all, a uniform type should be aimed at by breeders and uniformity of type can only exist in a proportionate ratio in the purity and distinctiveness in any breed"!.........M. Moore
"If breeds did not adhere to a specific shape, form, and colour range, or if breeders disregarded this blueprint, the breed would degenerate to the point that it would hardly resemble the breed at all. Selective breeding does not just create breeds- it preserves them as well." Breeding purebred dogs inherently means accepting limitations on your freedom to just breed anything...Catherine McMillan
" A reinforced consolidation of the American and British standards could be the basis for restoring our breed to the gladiatorial glory of its ancient past, in capability if not in usage".....Norman Howard Carp-Gordon
"I can live with doubt, or not knowing, rather than to have answers that might be wrong"...Richard Feynman
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steveoifer

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Tips on handling.................

 

Notice Alan Levine in the first photo, always fixing the rear from underneath the dog. Rarely should one fix a back leg over the top! In addition, notice how high and tight he keeps the dog's head when making the adjustment!

 

In the second photo, you will observe Allan's horizontal leash "trick"!

 

Once his dog is set and the topline has been established, he accentuates that topline by holding the leash horizontal over the dog. The judge then sees a double image of a good and straight topline.

 

I always liked Allen's edge as a professional handler, because he seemed to instinctively understand subliminal messages which always worked in his favor. Body language and understanding his dogs were Allan's strong suit!

 

When going to dog shows, look for the "top" handlers and observe their style and methods!

 



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For the betterment of the breed

"Above all, a uniform type should be aimed at by breeders and uniformity of type can only exist in a proportionate ratio in the purity and distinctiveness in any breed"!.........M. Moore
"If breeds did not adhere to a specific shape, form, and colour range, or if breeders disregarded this blueprint, the breed would degenerate to the point that it would hardly resemble the breed at all. Selective breeding does not just create breeds- it preserves them as well." Breeding purebred dogs inherently means accepting limitations on your freedom to just breed anything...Catherine McMillan
" A reinforced consolidation of the American and British standards could be the basis for restoring our breed to the gladiatorial glory of its ancient past, in capability if not in usage".....Norman Howard Carp-Gordon
"I can live with doubt, or not knowing, rather than to have answers that might be wrong"...Richard Feynman
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goldleaf

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Reply with quote  #3 
The name Allan Levine sounds so familiar to me.  Did he become a judge at one time?  How many years did he handle?

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steveoifer

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Levine in action at Rockland Cty KC

 

Notice the 1st & 3rd shots.

 

If you were the judge, which dog would your attention be focused on?

 

Why?



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For the betterment of the breed

"Above all, a uniform type should be aimed at by breeders and uniformity of type can only exist in a proportionate ratio in the purity and distinctiveness in any breed"!.........M. Moore
"If breeds did not adhere to a specific shape, form, and colour range, or if breeders disregarded this blueprint, the breed would degenerate to the point that it would hardly resemble the breed at all. Selective breeding does not just create breeds- it preserves them as well." Breeding purebred dogs inherently means accepting limitations on your freedom to just breed anything...Catherine McMillan
" A reinforced consolidation of the American and British standards could be the basis for restoring our breed to the gladiatorial glory of its ancient past, in capability if not in usage".....Norman Howard Carp-Gordon
"I can live with doubt, or not knowing, rather than to have answers that might be wrong"...Richard Feynman
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steveoifer

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Allan was known for handling Newfs, but many well known mastiff breeders used him as well.

 

Here is a list of pros nation-wide...................

 

 

http://home.teleport.com/~ssloan/pros.html

 


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For the betterment of the breed

"Above all, a uniform type should be aimed at by breeders and uniformity of type can only exist in a proportionate ratio in the purity and distinctiveness in any breed"!.........M. Moore
"If breeds did not adhere to a specific shape, form, and colour range, or if breeders disregarded this blueprint, the breed would degenerate to the point that it would hardly resemble the breed at all. Selective breeding does not just create breeds- it preserves them as well." Breeding purebred dogs inherently means accepting limitations on your freedom to just breed anything...Catherine McMillan
" A reinforced consolidation of the American and British standards could be the basis for restoring our breed to the gladiatorial glory of its ancient past, in capability if not in usage".....Norman Howard Carp-Gordon
"I can live with doubt, or not knowing, rather than to have answers that might be wrong"...Richard Feynman
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goldleaf

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Reply with quote  #6 
I use different styles for each dog based on their personality.  One thing I consistently do with puppies if they tend to be a bit high in the rear is find a dip in the grass and put their back feet in it so it helps to give them a better topline while stacked.

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Crossroads

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Reply with quote  #7 

I have to admit that before I could focus on any of the dogs I had to laugh hysterically at the haircuts and sideburns.  WOW!!

 

After that I got serious and looked closely.  In the first shot (the puppy dog class) I probably would have focused on the 3rd one from the right.  I like the way he has his head up and I think his top line would look good if his hind legs were so extended.  His shoulders seem correct.

 

In the picture of the open dog class I would have focused on the 2nd from the left.  Again, I like the way his head is up with that alert expression.  He isn't my dream dog by any stretch of the imagination, but that's the one I would pick from that photo. 

 

These photos could probably be good examples of what not to do. I see several of those handlers making the same mistakes I make in the ring. It's just so hard to focus on every little thing.   


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Jennifer Patterson
Crossroads Mastiffs
http://www.crossroadsmastiffs.com

"Only two defining forces have ever offered to die for you, Jesus Christ and the American GI....one died for your soul, the other died for your freedom"
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goldleaf

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Reply with quote  #8 
I would agree with Jennifer's choices regarding which dogs initially stand out. but in the third picture, I do think the dog second from the right is better quality, based on the picture. They didn't do alot of great stacking then did they?

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Crossroads

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Reply with quote  #9 

Ok Jann...but what did you think of the haircuts and side burns???


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Jennifer Patterson
Crossroads Mastiffs
http://www.crossroadsmastiffs.com

"Only two defining forces have ever offered to die for you, Jesus Christ and the American GI....one died for your soul, the other died for your freedom"
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goldleaf

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I've already made my husband an appointment for a complete makeover - I've just got to have that look!!!

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steveoifer

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Reply with quote  #11 

Jenn,

Allan Levine is on both those dogs in the shots you've mentioned!

 

Notice what he is doing that the others are not doing! 

 

Bear in mind, that we're not picking dogs, we are evaluating presentation!


__________________
For the betterment of the breed

"Above all, a uniform type should be aimed at by breeders and uniformity of type can only exist in a proportionate ratio in the purity and distinctiveness in any breed"!.........M. Moore
"If breeds did not adhere to a specific shape, form, and colour range, or if breeders disregarded this blueprint, the breed would degenerate to the point that it would hardly resemble the breed at all. Selective breeding does not just create breeds- it preserves them as well." Breeding purebred dogs inherently means accepting limitations on your freedom to just breed anything...Catherine McMillan
" A reinforced consolidation of the American and British standards could be the basis for restoring our breed to the gladiatorial glory of its ancient past, in capability if not in usage".....Norman Howard Carp-Gordon
"I can live with doubt, or not knowing, rather than to have answers that might be wrong"...Richard Feynman
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steveoifer

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Reply with quote  #12 

From a 1976 OEMC newsletter:

 



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For the betterment of the breed

"Above all, a uniform type should be aimed at by breeders and uniformity of type can only exist in a proportionate ratio in the purity and distinctiveness in any breed"!.........M. Moore
"If breeds did not adhere to a specific shape, form, and colour range, or if breeders disregarded this blueprint, the breed would degenerate to the point that it would hardly resemble the breed at all. Selective breeding does not just create breeds- it preserves them as well." Breeding purebred dogs inherently means accepting limitations on your freedom to just breed anything...Catherine McMillan
" A reinforced consolidation of the American and British standards could be the basis for restoring our breed to the gladiatorial glory of its ancient past, in capability if not in usage".....Norman Howard Carp-Gordon
"I can live with doubt, or not knowing, rather than to have answers that might be wrong"...Richard Feynman
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HeartsDesire

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Reply with quote  #13 

Steve,

I agree with that statement.  I hate to see any breed strung up, you can bring a dog up over his front with out stringing them up.  I also like to see them stand on their own.  If you have a correct and balanced dog they will give you a beautiful profile free baiting.


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Lynda
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goldleaf

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kittykat

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Steve, it looks to me like Alan is consistently looking at the judge as if to say "I KNOW my dog is presented well. Don't you agree?"


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goldleaf

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Monica

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Monica
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Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays to Everyone~
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Gina

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Reply with quote  #18 

You don't need a hat to handle a dog..LOL..Alan Levine, Vic Capone, Fredy Olsen, Damara, Sue Olsen, some of the best in the 80' 90's..Diane Collings of course..

One of my favorites to watch is our own Linda Cain..she is gentle, classy and has the look of person holding leash directly to Mastiff brain and body. They seem as one. And never takes her eyes off the judge..cause you never know when HE is keepin on eye on U.

I hate "over" handling. None of them do it.

A Mastiff is hard enough to move when they hate being in the ring, so it's a thing of greatness to watch this huge animal moving effortlessy around the ring with the little itty bitty skinny show lead..

Gina

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My girl Lake is just over 9 months old. The first time I showed her she was 6 months old. I live in Canada and the show we entered was one of the largest shows held in British Columbia, it was an indoor show. Lake was a tropper, from the first second we walked in the door she acted like she owned the place, no fear no hesitancy, she thought all people were there to pet her and the dogs were there to play with. So we are in the ring, the judge we had was great, we ran around the ring and during our final go around...Lake does a dead stop, and sits and won't move....Of course the crowd thought it was great.. I could hear the laughter..... I finally coax her into finishing. Day 2 same thing...but we finish. Her next show is in a couple of weeks, some people have suggested a different collar...any other suggestions. Jamie and Anita witnessed this and I am sure if they have anything to add it will be somewhat emblished.....lol.......Shelley and put on the Brakes Lake.  

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steveoifer

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Reply with quote  #20 

Levine would also stack the dog at a slight angle pointing outward from the rest of the pack. It was very subtle, but when looking at the whole crowd, your eye would naturally seek the one which was off line.

 

It must be done in a very smooth fashion, in order not to seem "in your face", but if done properly it can be very effective in keeping the judge focused on your entry!

 

The right hand on the neck chain and your left hand behind your back, with body tilted slightly forward in the direction of the dogs head, gives a "clean" outline emphasizing the dog and not yourself, when the judge is viewing the group!


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For the betterment of the breed

"Above all, a uniform type should be aimed at by breeders and uniformity of type can only exist in a proportionate ratio in the purity and distinctiveness in any breed"!.........M. Moore
"If breeds did not adhere to a specific shape, form, and colour range, or if breeders disregarded this blueprint, the breed would degenerate to the point that it would hardly resemble the breed at all. Selective breeding does not just create breeds- it preserves them as well." Breeding purebred dogs inherently means accepting limitations on your freedom to just breed anything...Catherine McMillan
" A reinforced consolidation of the American and British standards could be the basis for restoring our breed to the gladiatorial glory of its ancient past, in capability if not in usage".....Norman Howard Carp-Gordon
"I can live with doubt, or not knowing, rather than to have answers that might be wrong"...Richard Feynman
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Reply with quote  #21 
Hi All!
 
HELP!!!! I have mentioned that my Libby is a terror!
 
I want this to be fun for her, but when I go to try and stack her, she bites/mouths my hands, does summersaults, falls over, well you get the picture. She thinks this is great fun, play time! Well EVERYTHING is playtime.
 
She does great on the leash (better than I ever dreamed) but I think that has something to do with the fact that she is in motion-I am thinking maybe she has a touch of puppy ADHD ? LOL!
 
Laura (Kaia's breeder) had already worked with Kaia before I got her-so she had it almost down pat. So I have never tried to teach a puppy to stack, and not really sure where to start.
 
Can somebody please try and fill me in?
 
Thank you!
Barrie  
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Gina

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Reply with quote  #22 
Barrie,
Do you go to handling classes? Most All breed clubs have them. check your local places...your puppy is a puppy and having fun, but they should be "ring ready" and stand for examination, show the bite, and gait accordingly..a judge cannot get a good look at a down and back or side gait with antics..LOL..
 
We should ask Jenn. Modica..her HUGE Mastiffs used to play all the time...it was funny, but at some shows, frowned on..rightfully so..the judges only have 5 minutes to go over each dog..make it worth your while..they love puppies, and don't expect too much sometimes, but it's a credit to you to do the best you can..and sound like you are really trying...
 
do you love Liver? hotdogs?..chicken w/garlic?..
hugs,
Gina
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Reply with quote  #23 

Thanks Gina!
 
Yeah, I did the handling classes with my 3 older dogs, and when we got to our first show I realized that I had learned less than what I thought I was learning there, and MUCH more here!
 
The handling classes (at least here) are awesome for socialization, but I am not so sure a street faire wouldn't be of as much help?
 
Yep, she shows her bite! Nice sharp pirhanna teeth that leave a very nice imprint on your hand lol! As for moving, she gaits beautifully until she trips over her own feet (which usually happens after about 25 steps I am guessing)! She is a riot, personality PLUS, presence for days, she will be a hit somewhere (just not sure if it will be with the judges lol).
 

Quote:
do you love Liver? hotdogs?..chicken w/garlic?..
hugs,
Gina

 
Umm, not sure what you meant by this Gina? I am guessing you mean the dogs? Yep, but I love the above as well!

Barrie
 

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Gina

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Reply with quote  #24 
haha..I should of said for the dogs, but then again, it's great people food too. I just never "got" squishin in the mouth..I would gulp it down..
 
When I look at old, (and I MEAN OLD) videos of me showing, it's a wonder I made it..then again, back then they looked at the dog more?..I love that you are doing the "handling" yourself Barrie, it's fun, and I always loved it.
 
She sounds like a rip roarin time, just like kids, enjoy them while they are young..they grow UP to fast..
hugs,
Gina
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Reply with quote  #25 
Oh Gina I know, they grow way too fast! Well at least the 4 legged kids, I am kind of happy to almost have mine grown-the 2 legged ones! My 23 year old daughter asked me a while back f I was ready for grandkids and I said NO! She pushed, and said: "you can't tell me you don't want grandbabies around." I said NO! All I want is another puppy! That was BEFORE Miss Libby!
 
As for Libby . . . she is wayyyyy too smart for her own good! She trots her little self on a leash like she has been doing it for years (well until she trips over her feet)! She has only been doing it for a couple of days! I am keeping each session down to about 5 minutes, including a little INTENTIONAL rough play at the end and a 'cookie'. Does that sound about right for a 3 month old? I don't want this to turn into a 'drag' for her.
 
Meanwhile I am trying to figure out the self stacking technique so I can keep my hands!
 
Thanks for the help!
Hugs to you too!
Barrie
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