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steveoifer

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Reply with quote  #101 

"The tithingman of Wolfhall and the tithingman of Puthall were required to keep, respectively, a bloodhound and a mastiff for the use of the men of the hundred, and by custom each showed his dog at the view of frankpledge: presumably for meeting the requirement each was excused attendance at the court held every three weeks."

From: 'Kinwardstone Hundred', A History of the County of Wiltshire: Volume 16: Kinwardstone Hundred  (1999), pp. 3-7. URL: http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.asp?compid=23036&strquery=mastiff. Date accessed: 01 October 2006.


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For the betterment of the breed

"Above all, a uniform type should be aimed at by breeders and uniformity of type can only exist in a proportionate ratio in the purity and distinctiveness in any breed"!.........M. Moore
"If breeds did not adhere to a specific shape, form, and colour range, or if breeders disregarded this blueprint, the breed would degenerate to the point that it would hardly resemble the breed at all. Selective breeding does not just create breeds- it preserves them as well." Breeding purebred dogs inherently means accepting limitations on your freedom to just breed anything...Catherine McMillan
" A reinforced consolidation of the American and British standards could be the basis for restoring our breed to the gladiatorial glory of its ancient past, in capability if not in usage".....Norman Howard Carp-Gordon
"I can live with doubt, or not knowing, rather than to have answers that might be wrong"...Richard Feynman
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steveoifer

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Reply with quote  #102 

http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.asp?compid=45265&strquery=mastiff

 

Mastiff mentioned on a number of occasions!


__________________
For the betterment of the breed

"Above all, a uniform type should be aimed at by breeders and uniformity of type can only exist in a proportionate ratio in the purity and distinctiveness in any breed"!.........M. Moore
"If breeds did not adhere to a specific shape, form, and colour range, or if breeders disregarded this blueprint, the breed would degenerate to the point that it would hardly resemble the breed at all. Selective breeding does not just create breeds- it preserves them as well." Breeding purebred dogs inherently means accepting limitations on your freedom to just breed anything...Catherine McMillan
" A reinforced consolidation of the American and British standards could be the basis for restoring our breed to the gladiatorial glory of its ancient past, in capability if not in usage".....Norman Howard Carp-Gordon
"I can live with doubt, or not knowing, rather than to have answers that might be wrong"...Richard Feynman
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steveoifer

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Reply with quote  #103 

Henry Foster replied, "What had he to do with Sir Charles? if Sir Charles had any Thing to do with him, let him come to them; for Deer they came for, and Deer they would have." Thereupon the aforesaid Foster directed the Ensign to pistol One of Sir Charles Howard's Men, called John Claydon. The Ensign set his Pistol to John Claydon's Breast cocked, with these Words, "Deliver your Arms, you Rogue." Then the aforesaid Foster pulled the Gun out of Claydon's Hand; and the said Foster, having a Mastiff Dog, set him upon this Deponent, which took Hold of this Deponent's Ham, whilst Foster took away his Gun from him; and he went and took away Two Guns more, and a Staff, from others that came to assist this Deponent. This Deponent saw there with Henry Foster Three Greyhounds; and the said Foster and One of the Greyhounds were very bloody with the Soil of the Deer. One Deer of their Killing this Deponent found slayed in the Park; and is credibly informed, they carried Five more away at that Time; and that the said Foster and his Company killed and carried away Three Male Deer, about a Month before, out of the said Park.

From: 'House of Lords Journal Volume 7: 19 September 1645', Journal of the House of Lords: volume 7: 1644 (1802), pp. 583-88. URL: http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.asp?compid=33402&strquery=mastiff. Date accessed: 01 October 2006.


__________________
For the betterment of the breed

"Above all, a uniform type should be aimed at by breeders and uniformity of type can only exist in a proportionate ratio in the purity and distinctiveness in any breed"!.........M. Moore
"If breeds did not adhere to a specific shape, form, and colour range, or if breeders disregarded this blueprint, the breed would degenerate to the point that it would hardly resemble the breed at all. Selective breeding does not just create breeds- it preserves them as well." Breeding purebred dogs inherently means accepting limitations on your freedom to just breed anything...Catherine McMillan
" A reinforced consolidation of the American and British standards could be the basis for restoring our breed to the gladiatorial glory of its ancient past, in capability if not in usage".....Norman Howard Carp-Gordon
"I can live with doubt, or not knowing, rather than to have answers that might be wrong"...Richard Feynman
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steveoifer

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Reply with quote  #104 

Mr. Peter Cunningham, in his " Handbook of London," quotes one of the advertisements from the London Gazette, No. 946, which we take the liberty of copying here:—" Lost, from my Lady Baltinglasses (sic) house, in the great square of Bloomsbury, the first of this instant December (1674), a great old Indian spaniel or mongrel, as big as a mastiff; he hath curled and black hair all over, except in his fore-feet, which are a little white; he hath also cropt ears, and is bowed and limps a little in one of his fore-feet. If any can bring news thereof, they shall have twenty shillings for their pains."

From: 'Bloomsbury Square and neighbourhood', Old and New London: Volume 4 (1878), pp. 535-45. URL: http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.asp?compid=45212&strquery=mastiff. Date accessed: 01 October 2006.


__________________
For the betterment of the breed

"Above all, a uniform type should be aimed at by breeders and uniformity of type can only exist in a proportionate ratio in the purity and distinctiveness in any breed"!.........M. Moore
"If breeds did not adhere to a specific shape, form, and colour range, or if breeders disregarded this blueprint, the breed would degenerate to the point that it would hardly resemble the breed at all. Selective breeding does not just create breeds- it preserves them as well." Breeding purebred dogs inherently means accepting limitations on your freedom to just breed anything...Catherine McMillan
" A reinforced consolidation of the American and British standards could be the basis for restoring our breed to the gladiatorial glory of its ancient past, in capability if not in usage".....Norman Howard Carp-Gordon
"I can live with doubt, or not knowing, rather than to have answers that might be wrong"...Richard Feynman
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steveoifer

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Reply with quote  #105 

He says that he & Faxton were together all day yesterday that they met at 7 a Clock in ye morning & kept together ye whole day till they were taken up that they first met together at the black Dog in Shoreditch. Brian Oram & Richard Wingfield, Sworn. B Oram Says that coming from London about 11 a Clock & being informed of the robbery & having a description of ye persons, being in Compa: wth Wingfeild & a large Mastiff wth them near the mutton they met 2 men whom they challenged & Siezed Suspecting them to be the persons who had done ye Robbery.

From: 'The Justicing notebook of Henry Norris: 1732-3 (nos 35-94)', Justice in eighteenth-century Hackney: The justicing notebook of Henry Norris and the Hackney petty sessions book (1991), pp. 7-22. URL: http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.asp?compid=38818&strquery=mastiff. Date accessed: 01 October 2006.


__________________
For the betterment of the breed

"Above all, a uniform type should be aimed at by breeders and uniformity of type can only exist in a proportionate ratio in the purity and distinctiveness in any breed"!.........M. Moore
"If breeds did not adhere to a specific shape, form, and colour range, or if breeders disregarded this blueprint, the breed would degenerate to the point that it would hardly resemble the breed at all. Selective breeding does not just create breeds- it preserves them as well." Breeding purebred dogs inherently means accepting limitations on your freedom to just breed anything...Catherine McMillan
" A reinforced consolidation of the American and British standards could be the basis for restoring our breed to the gladiatorial glory of its ancient past, in capability if not in usage".....Norman Howard Carp-Gordon
"I can live with doubt, or not knowing, rather than to have answers that might be wrong"...Richard Feynman
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steveoifer

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Reply with quote  #106 

He is not afraid of the cloud spoken of by Duncombe; he supposes this cause of Shirley is like a mastiff-dog, held by the collar, to be let loose at us, and they will slip Shirley at us, as they did the last Session, when we voted, "No new Bills to be brought in, &c." If things go to their liking, they will hold their dog;

From: 'Debates in 1675: November 16th-17th', Grey's Debates of the House of Commons: volume 4 (1769), pp. 16-39. URL: http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.asp?compid=40383&strquery=mastiff. Date accessed: 01 October 2006.


__________________
For the betterment of the breed

"Above all, a uniform type should be aimed at by breeders and uniformity of type can only exist in a proportionate ratio in the purity and distinctiveness in any breed"!.........M. Moore
"If breeds did not adhere to a specific shape, form, and colour range, or if breeders disregarded this blueprint, the breed would degenerate to the point that it would hardly resemble the breed at all. Selective breeding does not just create breeds- it preserves them as well." Breeding purebred dogs inherently means accepting limitations on your freedom to just breed anything...Catherine McMillan
" A reinforced consolidation of the American and British standards could be the basis for restoring our breed to the gladiatorial glory of its ancient past, in capability if not in usage".....Norman Howard Carp-Gordon
"I can live with doubt, or not knowing, rather than to have answers that might be wrong"...Richard Feynman
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steveoifer

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Reply with quote  #107 

Several bear-gardens are known to have been within the Clink. In 1620–1 John Taylor, the water poet, in giving evidence in the Court of Exchequer, stated that he remembered 'that the game of bear-baiting hath been kept in four several places, at Mason Stairs on the Bankside, near Maid Lane by the corner of the Pike Garden, at the beargarden which was parcel of the possession of William Payne, and at the place where they now are kept.' (fn. 144) The two former references are to the amphitheatres marked as 'The bolle bayting' and 'The Beare bayting,' the first westward of the second, on Agas's map drawn in 1560. (fn. 145) They seem to have been superseded before 1598 by the other rings to which Taylor alludes, and which are described by Stow: 'There be two bear-gardens, the old and new places, wherein be kept bears, bulls and other beasts to be balted. As also mastiffs in several kennels, nourished to bait them. These bears and other beasts are there baited in plots of ground, scaffolded about for the beholders to stand safe.' (fn. 146) The 'old' Bear Garden has been identified with the 'parcel of the possession of William Payne,' and has been located at the north end of the lane known as the Bear Garden and next the river. (fn. 147) In 1620–1 it is evident that only the 'new' Bear Garden, which was at the north end of the same lane, was in use. Shakespeare lodged in 1596 near the Bear Garden in Southwark. (fn. 148)
The functions of the master of the game of Paris Garden were connected with the bull and bear baiting. In 1573 the queen granted to Ralph Bowes the mastership of 'our games, pastimes and sports, that is to say of all and every our bears, bulls and mastiff dogs,' as Cuthbert Vaughan or Sir Richard Long had held the office. (fn. 149) Later in the year Ralph, as master of her Majesty's game at Paris Garden, received payment for bringing the game before the queen at Westminster and Greenwich. (fn. 150) From this it seems possible that the animals were still kept within the lordship, although the amphitheatres were outside it. In 1595 a royal grant gave to Philip Henslowe twelve tenements and their appurtenances in Bankside, (fn. 151) and in 1611 he and Edward Alleyn, his son-in-law, (fn. 152) were masters of the game and were paid for keeping two white bears and a young lion. (fn. 153) Henslowe in such capacity engaged Gilbert Katherens, carpenter, in 1613 to demolish the game place or house where bulls and bears had been usually baited and to build a 'game place or playhouse' 'convenient in all things both for players to play in, and for the game of bears and bulls to be baited in same.'

From: 'The borough of Southwark: Introduction', A History of the County of Surrey: Volume 4 (1912), pp. 125-35. URL: http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.asp?compid=43041&strquery=mastiff. Date accessed: 01 October 2006.


__________________
For the betterment of the breed

"Above all, a uniform type should be aimed at by breeders and uniformity of type can only exist in a proportionate ratio in the purity and distinctiveness in any breed"!.........M. Moore
"If breeds did not adhere to a specific shape, form, and colour range, or if breeders disregarded this blueprint, the breed would degenerate to the point that it would hardly resemble the breed at all. Selective breeding does not just create breeds- it preserves them as well." Breeding purebred dogs inherently means accepting limitations on your freedom to just breed anything...Catherine McMillan
" A reinforced consolidation of the American and British standards could be the basis for restoring our breed to the gladiatorial glory of its ancient past, in capability if not in usage".....Norman Howard Carp-Gordon
"I can live with doubt, or not knowing, rather than to have answers that might be wrong"...Richard Feynman
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steveoifer

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Reply with quote  #108 

When the great plot to assassinate Cromwell was detected, in 1653, Vowell, an Islington schoolmaster, one of the plotters, was hung at Charing Cross. He died bravely, crying out for Church, King, and Restoration, and warning the soldiers of their dangerous principles. Colonel Okey, whom Cromwell compelled to sit as one of King Charles's judges, was in early life a drayman and stoker at an Islington brewery. He was seized in Holland, after the Restoration, and executed in 1662. A curious story is told of the famous Parliamentary general, Skippon, in connection with Islington. This tough old soldier was being brought from Naseby, where he had been desperately wounded. As his horse litter was passing through Islington, a mastiff sprang at one of the horses, and worried him, nor would he let go till a soldier ran him through with his sword. Skippon, however, on getting to London, had a piece of his waistcoat drawn from his bullet-wound, and soon recovered.

From: 'Islington', Old and New London: Volume 2 (1878), pp. 251-68. URL: http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.asp?compid=45095&strquery=mastiff. Date accessed: 01 October 2006.


__________________
For the betterment of the breed

"Above all, a uniform type should be aimed at by breeders and uniformity of type can only exist in a proportionate ratio in the purity and distinctiveness in any breed"!.........M. Moore
"If breeds did not adhere to a specific shape, form, and colour range, or if breeders disregarded this blueprint, the breed would degenerate to the point that it would hardly resemble the breed at all. Selective breeding does not just create breeds- it preserves them as well." Breeding purebred dogs inherently means accepting limitations on your freedom to just breed anything...Catherine McMillan
" A reinforced consolidation of the American and British standards could be the basis for restoring our breed to the gladiatorial glory of its ancient past, in capability if not in usage".....Norman Howard Carp-Gordon
"I can live with doubt, or not knowing, rather than to have answers that might be wrong"...Richard Feynman
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steveoifer

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Reply with quote  #109 

 The noise of the screech-owl, the howling of the wolf, the barking of the mastiff, the grunting of the hog, the braying of the ass, the nocturnal wooing of the cat, the hissing of the, snake, the croaking of toads, frogs, and grasshoppers—all these in unison could not be more hideous than the noise which these beings make in the Stock Exchange.

From: 'The Stock Exchange', Old and New London: Volume 1 (1878), pp. 473-94. URL: http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.asp?compid=45059&strquery=mastiff. Date accessed: 01 October 2006.


__________________
For the betterment of the breed

"Above all, a uniform type should be aimed at by breeders and uniformity of type can only exist in a proportionate ratio in the purity and distinctiveness in any breed"!.........M. Moore
"If breeds did not adhere to a specific shape, form, and colour range, or if breeders disregarded this blueprint, the breed would degenerate to the point that it would hardly resemble the breed at all. Selective breeding does not just create breeds- it preserves them as well." Breeding purebred dogs inherently means accepting limitations on your freedom to just breed anything...Catherine McMillan
" A reinforced consolidation of the American and British standards could be the basis for restoring our breed to the gladiatorial glory of its ancient past, in capability if not in usage".....Norman Howard Carp-Gordon
"I can live with doubt, or not knowing, rather than to have answers that might be wrong"...Richard Feynman
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steveoifer

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Reply with quote  #110 

The records of the portmote court from 1597 to 1669 are in the possession of the corporation. The head of the Molyneux of Sefton family, as hereditary steward of the hundred, presided, except during the Commonwealth period. The courts were held at Michaelmas and April. The officers appointed in 1597 were borough-reeve, constables, mise layers, mise gatherers, bylaw men, affeerers, and ale-founders; in 1656 the following additional ones were elected: scavengers for the Greengate and Gravel Hole, scavengers for the Lower Gate, apprisers, officers for surprising and robbing of coals, for pinning of swine trespassing, for mastiff dogs, for the pump, and for measuring of cloth. (fn. 36)

From: 'Townships: Salford', A History of the County of Lancashire: Volume 4 (1911), pp. 204-17. URL: http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.asp?compid=41407&strquery=mastiff. Date accessed: 01 October 2006.


__________________
For the betterment of the breed

"Above all, a uniform type should be aimed at by breeders and uniformity of type can only exist in a proportionate ratio in the purity and distinctiveness in any breed"!.........M. Moore
"If breeds did not adhere to a specific shape, form, and colour range, or if breeders disregarded this blueprint, the breed would degenerate to the point that it would hardly resemble the breed at all. Selective breeding does not just create breeds- it preserves them as well." Breeding purebred dogs inherently means accepting limitations on your freedom to just breed anything...Catherine McMillan
" A reinforced consolidation of the American and British standards could be the basis for restoring our breed to the gladiatorial glory of its ancient past, in capability if not in usage".....Norman Howard Carp-Gordon
"I can live with doubt, or not knowing, rather than to have answers that might be wrong"...Richard Feynman
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steveoifer

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Reply with quote  #111 

Office of the chief master of the bears, &c.
As the nature of this office is little known, it will, perhaps, be amusing to my readers, to give a short account of it, with copies of original papers relating thereto. Whenever it was the king's pleasure to entertain himself, or any of his royal visitors, with the game of bear-baiting, it was the business of the master of the game to provide bears and dogs, and to superintend the baiting: and as this cruel sport destroyed a great number of the poor animals, he was invested with the most unlimited authority to issue commissions and to send his officers into every county of England, who were empowered to seize and take away any bears, bulls, or dogs, that they thought meet for his majesty's service. This arbitrary proceeding was little relished by the subjects (fn. 18) ; and the persons sent to take up dogs, were frequently ill-treated and beaten, the justices of the peace often refusing to grant them any redress. Some towns, and whole counties, to avoid these disputes, made a composition with the master of the bears, to send up a certain number of mastiff dogs yearly, upon condition, that the commission should never come into their neighbourhood. Among Alleyn's papers is an engagement signed by certain persons of the town of Manchester, wherein they promise to send up yearly, "a masty dogge or bytche to the beargarden, between Mydsomer and Michaelmasse." The master of the bear-garden, in Queen Elizabeth's time, was allowed to have public baitings on Sundays in the afternoon (fn. 19) ; which liberty was taken away by James I. Alleyn complains much of this in a petition which he presented to the king; in which he also prays for an increase of salary. The whole petition is curious, and throws so much light upon the nature and prevalence of this diversion, that I shall make no apology for inserting it at length; and with it shall close this digression upon bear-baiting:
"To the king's most excellent majesty, the humble petition of Philip Henslow, and Edward Alleyn, your majesties servants.

From: 'Camberwell', The Environs of London: volume 1: County of Surrey (1792), pp. 68-121. URL: http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.asp?compid=45373&strquery=mastiff. Date accessed: 01 October 2006.


__________________
For the betterment of the breed

"Above all, a uniform type should be aimed at by breeders and uniformity of type can only exist in a proportionate ratio in the purity and distinctiveness in any breed"!.........M. Moore
"If breeds did not adhere to a specific shape, form, and colour range, or if breeders disregarded this blueprint, the breed would degenerate to the point that it would hardly resemble the breed at all. Selective breeding does not just create breeds- it preserves them as well." Breeding purebred dogs inherently means accepting limitations on your freedom to just breed anything...Catherine McMillan
" A reinforced consolidation of the American and British standards could be the basis for restoring our breed to the gladiatorial glory of its ancient past, in capability if not in usage".....Norman Howard Carp-Gordon
"I can live with doubt, or not knowing, rather than to have answers that might be wrong"...Richard Feynman
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steveoifer

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Reply with quote  #112 

The above excerpts are esoteric in nature and have not been seen to any great extent in many if any publications. It will give you the "flavor" of mastiff history and the nature of the breed which existed in the past!


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For the betterment of the breed

"Above all, a uniform type should be aimed at by breeders and uniformity of type can only exist in a proportionate ratio in the purity and distinctiveness in any breed"!.........M. Moore
"If breeds did not adhere to a specific shape, form, and colour range, or if breeders disregarded this blueprint, the breed would degenerate to the point that it would hardly resemble the breed at all. Selective breeding does not just create breeds- it preserves them as well." Breeding purebred dogs inherently means accepting limitations on your freedom to just breed anything...Catherine McMillan
" A reinforced consolidation of the American and British standards could be the basis for restoring our breed to the gladiatorial glory of its ancient past, in capability if not in usage".....Norman Howard Carp-Gordon
"I can live with doubt, or not knowing, rather than to have answers that might be wrong"...Richard Feynman
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steveoifer

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Reply with quote  #113 

The birth of breeds over 4000 years ago:

 

"Babylonians some inklings of a knowledge of classification. Thus, according to Menant,[21] some of the tablets from Nineveh, which are written, as usual, in both the Sumerian and Assyrian languages, and which, therefore, like practically all Assyrian books, draw upon the knowledge of old Babylonia, give lists of animals, making an attempt at classification. The dog, lion, and wolf are placed in one category; the ox, sheep, and goat in another; the dog family itself is divided into various races, as the domestic dog, the coursing dog, the small dog, the dog of Elan, etc. Similar attempts at classification of birds are found."


__________________
For the betterment of the breed

"Above all, a uniform type should be aimed at by breeders and uniformity of type can only exist in a proportionate ratio in the purity and distinctiveness in any breed"!.........M. Moore
"If breeds did not adhere to a specific shape, form, and colour range, or if breeders disregarded this blueprint, the breed would degenerate to the point that it would hardly resemble the breed at all. Selective breeding does not just create breeds- it preserves them as well." Breeding purebred dogs inherently means accepting limitations on your freedom to just breed anything...Catherine McMillan
" A reinforced consolidation of the American and British standards could be the basis for restoring our breed to the gladiatorial glory of its ancient past, in capability if not in usage".....Norman Howard Carp-Gordon
"I can live with doubt, or not knowing, rather than to have answers that might be wrong"...Richard Feynman
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steveoifer

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Reply with quote  #114 

c1887...... a good artist and a very typey mastiff!


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For the betterment of the breed

"Above all, a uniform type should be aimed at by breeders and uniformity of type can only exist in a proportionate ratio in the purity and distinctiveness in any breed"!.........M. Moore
"If breeds did not adhere to a specific shape, form, and colour range, or if breeders disregarded this blueprint, the breed would degenerate to the point that it would hardly resemble the breed at all. Selective breeding does not just create breeds- it preserves them as well." Breeding purebred dogs inherently means accepting limitations on your freedom to just breed anything...Catherine McMillan
" A reinforced consolidation of the American and British standards could be the basis for restoring our breed to the gladiatorial glory of its ancient past, in capability if not in usage".....Norman Howard Carp-Gordon
"I can live with doubt, or not knowing, rather than to have answers that might be wrong"...Richard Feynman
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steveoifer

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Reply with quote  #115 

http://www.angelfire.com/biz6/EnglishMastiff/rawfood.html


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For the betterment of the breed

"Above all, a uniform type should be aimed at by breeders and uniformity of type can only exist in a proportionate ratio in the purity and distinctiveness in any breed"!.........M. Moore
"If breeds did not adhere to a specific shape, form, and colour range, or if breeders disregarded this blueprint, the breed would degenerate to the point that it would hardly resemble the breed at all. Selective breeding does not just create breeds- it preserves them as well." Breeding purebred dogs inherently means accepting limitations on your freedom to just breed anything...Catherine McMillan
" A reinforced consolidation of the American and British standards could be the basis for restoring our breed to the gladiatorial glory of its ancient past, in capability if not in usage".....Norman Howard Carp-Gordon
"I can live with doubt, or not knowing, rather than to have answers that might be wrong"...Richard Feynman
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goldleaf

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Reply with quote  #116 
Bump
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steveoifer

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GEORGE CHARLES MORLAND - MASTIFF - CANVAS

George Morland

 

Reproduction in color of a "bandog" protecting his sheep!

 

I own this and the original blk & White mezzotint C1778.

Notice the coat color and general form of this 230 year old mastiff progenitor!

This picture is the one mentioned by D.B. Oliff in Ch. 8 of his fine book.

 


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For the betterment of the breed

"Above all, a uniform type should be aimed at by breeders and uniformity of type can only exist in a proportionate ratio in the purity and distinctiveness in any breed"!.........M. Moore
"If breeds did not adhere to a specific shape, form, and colour range, or if breeders disregarded this blueprint, the breed would degenerate to the point that it would hardly resemble the breed at all. Selective breeding does not just create breeds- it preserves them as well." Breeding purebred dogs inherently means accepting limitations on your freedom to just breed anything...Catherine McMillan
" A reinforced consolidation of the American and British standards could be the basis for restoring our breed to the gladiatorial glory of its ancient past, in capability if not in usage".....Norman Howard Carp-Gordon
"I can live with doubt, or not knowing, rather than to have answers that might be wrong"...Richard Feynman
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steveoifer

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Reply with quote  #118 

http://www.demolossie.com/pedigree/mastiffs/igor/index.htm


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For the betterment of the breed

"Above all, a uniform type should be aimed at by breeders and uniformity of type can only exist in a proportionate ratio in the purity and distinctiveness in any breed"!.........M. Moore
"If breeds did not adhere to a specific shape, form, and colour range, or if breeders disregarded this blueprint, the breed would degenerate to the point that it would hardly resemble the breed at all. Selective breeding does not just create breeds- it preserves them as well." Breeding purebred dogs inherently means accepting limitations on your freedom to just breed anything...Catherine McMillan
" A reinforced consolidation of the American and British standards could be the basis for restoring our breed to the gladiatorial glory of its ancient past, in capability if not in usage".....Norman Howard Carp-Gordon
"I can live with doubt, or not knowing, rather than to have answers that might be wrong"...Richard Feynman
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steveoifer

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History

The Dogue's history is believed to predate the Bullmastiff and the Bulldog. It is said that the Dogue can be found in the background of the Bullmastiff, and other claim the the Dogue and the Bullmastiff breeds were both being accomplished at the same time. Some believe that the Bulldog is the building block of the Dogue, and again, another group believes that the Bulldog was used in the breeding programs further down the line. Another theory, is that it originates from the Tibetan Mastiff.

Dr. Raymond Triquet is quoted as saying: "It is often said that the common stem of all European Dogues was a big dog coming from the confines of India and China, more than 3000 years ago, and by stages would have gone from Thibet to Mesopotamia, there, where begins the history of men, then to Epire, small kingdom of ancient Molosse; then to Rome and from there to Gaule. He would have made this long journey by the side of conquerors, warriors, and merchants.  It is possible that this prestigious connections part true, but let us not forget the fact, maybe preponderant, that archeologists have found in the land that would become France, bones of dogs dating from prehistory, bones that were those of a Dogue." 

There are notions that the Dogue has ties to the Alano, an extinct dog of Spain, similar in many ways to the Bordeaux. It is said that this dog was brought to Europe by the Alans, an Oriental tribe.  It is also said the Bordeaux is related to the Greco-Roman mollosids used for war, as there was a breed similar to the Dogue de Bordeaux in Rome at the time of Julius Caesar's reign.  This would make the Dogue a cousin to the Neapolitan Mastiff. Yet another theory suggests that the Dogue is a descendent of a breed which existed in France a long time ago. 

In France, the Dogues were bred depending on the region and jobs they were required to do.  The general appearance was inconsistent, the Dogue had various colors and varieties of coat, they had scissors bites in some regions, undershot in others, but they all had a general type similar to today's Dogues.

We do know the Dogue de Bordeaux was used as a guardian, a hunter, and a fighter.  They were trained to bait bulls, bears, and jaguars; hunt boars; heard cattle; and protect the homes, butchershops and vineyards of their masters. The Dogue de Bordeaux were prized as protectors and were often found in the home of the noble and wealthy of France.

During the French Revolution, many of the Dogues are thought to have perished with their wealthy masters during the uprising of the classes, but the Dogues of the common man must have thrived. These Dogues became the champions of the arena, and were powerful dogs bred to do their jobs and do them well.

It was in 1863 when the first reference of the Dogue can be found, at the first canine exhibition at the Jardin d'Acclimatation in Paris, France.  It was more of an inventory of breeds than a conformation event.  The winner was a bitch named Magentas, and the Dogue de Bordeaux was given the name of the capital of their region of origin.

There is not other known reference to the Dogue until the year 1883.  There was such diversity in the breed at this time, and much controversy over this. They had big heads and small heads, some were exceptionally large in body, while others very small. Some breeders preferred the scissors bite, others the undershot. The mask color was the subject of many debates and discussions. There were three styles of Dogue at this time, the Toulouse, the Paris, and the Bordeaux.  Our modern Dogue is a mixture of these different types, but is primarily Bordeaux.

The Toulouse was a Dogue that had almost every color in its coat, a fawnish tiger (a light brindle perhaps), with a longer body and smaller bones.  Dogues in Paris had a scissors bite, while others had a undershot of almost one inch.  Finally the breeders came together and decided upon the undershot, which is today's standard.

In 1895 a few breeders tried to establish the Dogue in England, and also that year, John Proctor or Antwerp, who had judged the Dogue de Bordeaux,  published an account of his experiences with the "fighting dogs of the South of France" in the magazine, The Stock Keeper

In 1896, Pierre Mengin put together a synthesis of the best Dogue de Bordeaux shown and know from 1863-1895.  He published Le Dogue de Bordeaux, that featured a description and characteristics true to the Dogue.  This effort, put forward by Mr. Brooke, Mr. Mengin, Dr. Wiart, and a group of authorities in France, was the first standard of the Dogue de Bordeaux.

In 1897, Henry de Bylants work, The Breeds of Dogs, introduced the breed standard to the world of dog breeders.  J. Kunstler, Professor of Comparative Anatomy of the Science Facility of Bordeaux, studied the Dogues in 1907 and in 1910 published A Critique Etude du Dogue de Bordeaux (A Critical Study of the Dogue de Bordeaux). During the 1960's, Dr. Raymond Triquet headed the rebuilding of the breed, and in 1970, Dr. Triquet wrote the new standard for the Dogue de Bordeaux.  The standard has once again been updated, this time by Dr. Triquet and Mr. Tim Taylor.

The Dogue can also be credited to taking part in the breeding programs of two other mastiffs, the Argentine Dogo and the Tosa. Dr. Martinez, who bred "The Fighting Dogs of Cordoba" or the Argentine Dogo, used a menagerie of breeds to produce the Dogo, and the Bordeaux was used to increase the size of the head and accentuate the overall courage, strength and jaw strength. During the 1930's, the Bordeaux were imported to Japan to cross with the Tosa (Fighting Dog of Japan). This increased the head size and the overall body size of the Tosa.

Prof Triquet notes the first dog recorded to be exported to the USA was Fidelle de Fenelon, to Merle Campbell in 1959. Fidelle was used in breeding Mastiffs, not Dogue de Bordeaux.

Recently, the son of Merle Cambell wrote to the DDBS with some interesting history to add on Fidelle:

"Franklin "Merle" Campbell Sr. was my father. Dad was probably the longest living breeder of Old English Mastiff's at the time of his death in 1987. My mother Henrietta B. Campbell was also very much involved in the breeding and cared of Mastiff's, both for their entire adult lives.

Dad brought the female bitch dogue in 1959 from France. There is not a Old English Mastiff in the world today that is NOT a descendant from this bitch. She was rather smallish by Old English Mastiff's standards but well with in the the breed standards of size and weight. Her confirmation was near perfect and she resembled a Brindle Mastiff/BullMastiff cross to some degree. My father conferred with the Mastiff Kennel Club before introducing her to the Old English Mastiff Breed. After the fact a great degree of controversy developed. Mrs Moore, a later friend of my fathers and a DuPont, wrote a book on the Old English Breed. She later thought that the introduction of the Dogue of Bordeaux to Mastiff line actually improved the Breed.

An interesting side note was that she was an adult dogue and did not understand English. It took her several months to learn English command. She was a beautiful dog. We loved her."

- Merle Campbell Jr.


The second dog was Rugby de la Maison des Arbres by Dr. Philip Todd. Dr. Todd moved to Holland with his Dogues, and there were no other records of any in the country until 1969 when Steve and Wendy Norris, with the help of Dr. Todd, began to import Dogue de Bordeaux into the United States. It was in the 1980's when the United States saw a small Dogue boom occur.  In 1986 Touchstone released Turner and Hooch, showing a big messy slobbering Dogue, which was believed to be a Bullmastiff or mutt.  In reality, it was the Dogue de Bordeaux. The Dogue was brought in to the country mainly by dog brokers, and many people received below par stock.  But thorough the years, the Americans have improved this stock, with selective and careful breeding, to have some of the finest Dogues in the world.

Today there are breeders of Dogue de Bordeaux that stretch form New Jersey to California, Texas to North Dakota.  One must be careful when purchasing a Dogue de Bordeaux, although they are considered a rare breed in the US, they carry a hefty price tag and are a favorite breed among the puppy millers.

The Dogue is not yet a recognized AKC breed, this is in the very near feature.  They are recognized world wide by the FCI, and are a UKC recognized breed.  There are a myriad of rare breed shows for the Dogue, that they are eligible to compete in.



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For the betterment of the breed

"Above all, a uniform type should be aimed at by breeders and uniformity of type can only exist in a proportionate ratio in the purity and distinctiveness in any breed"!.........M. Moore
"If breeds did not adhere to a specific shape, form, and colour range, or if breeders disregarded this blueprint, the breed would degenerate to the point that it would hardly resemble the breed at all. Selective breeding does not just create breeds- it preserves them as well." Breeding purebred dogs inherently means accepting limitations on your freedom to just breed anything...Catherine McMillan
" A reinforced consolidation of the American and British standards could be the basis for restoring our breed to the gladiatorial glory of its ancient past, in capability if not in usage".....Norman Howard Carp-Gordon
"I can live with doubt, or not knowing, rather than to have answers that might be wrong"...Richard Feynman
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steveoifer

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Reply with quote  #120 

Fidelle was probably a "Dogue du midi" based on the descriptive analogy.

 

http://www.bulldoginformation.com/dogue-de-bordeaux.html


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For the betterment of the breed

"Above all, a uniform type should be aimed at by breeders and uniformity of type can only exist in a proportionate ratio in the purity and distinctiveness in any breed"!.........M. Moore
"If breeds did not adhere to a specific shape, form, and colour range, or if breeders disregarded this blueprint, the breed would degenerate to the point that it would hardly resemble the breed at all. Selective breeding does not just create breeds- it preserves them as well." Breeding purebred dogs inherently means accepting limitations on your freedom to just breed anything...Catherine McMillan
" A reinforced consolidation of the American and British standards could be the basis for restoring our breed to the gladiatorial glory of its ancient past, in capability if not in usage".....Norman Howard Carp-Gordon
"I can live with doubt, or not knowing, rather than to have answers that might be wrong"...Richard Feynman
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Reply with quote  #121 

http://www.legendary.ws/Mastiffs%20Colorado%20photos.htm


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For the betterment of the breed

"Above all, a uniform type should be aimed at by breeders and uniformity of type can only exist in a proportionate ratio in the purity and distinctiveness in any breed"!.........M. Moore
"If breeds did not adhere to a specific shape, form, and colour range, or if breeders disregarded this blueprint, the breed would degenerate to the point that it would hardly resemble the breed at all. Selective breeding does not just create breeds- it preserves them as well." Breeding purebred dogs inherently means accepting limitations on your freedom to just breed anything...Catherine McMillan
" A reinforced consolidation of the American and British standards could be the basis for restoring our breed to the gladiatorial glory of its ancient past, in capability if not in usage".....Norman Howard Carp-Gordon
"I can live with doubt, or not knowing, rather than to have answers that might be wrong"...Richard Feynman
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steveoifer

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Reply with quote  #122 


__________________
For the betterment of the breed

"Above all, a uniform type should be aimed at by breeders and uniformity of type can only exist in a proportionate ratio in the purity and distinctiveness in any breed"!.........M. Moore
"If breeds did not adhere to a specific shape, form, and colour range, or if breeders disregarded this blueprint, the breed would degenerate to the point that it would hardly resemble the breed at all. Selective breeding does not just create breeds- it preserves them as well." Breeding purebred dogs inherently means accepting limitations on your freedom to just breed anything...Catherine McMillan
" A reinforced consolidation of the American and British standards could be the basis for restoring our breed to the gladiatorial glory of its ancient past, in capability if not in usage".....Norman Howard Carp-Gordon
"I can live with doubt, or not knowing, rather than to have answers that might be wrong"...Richard Feynman
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steveoifer

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Reply with quote  #123 




__________________
For the betterment of the breed

"Above all, a uniform type should be aimed at by breeders and uniformity of type can only exist in a proportionate ratio in the purity and distinctiveness in any breed"!.........M. Moore
"If breeds did not adhere to a specific shape, form, and colour range, or if breeders disregarded this blueprint, the breed would degenerate to the point that it would hardly resemble the breed at all. Selective breeding does not just create breeds- it preserves them as well." Breeding purebred dogs inherently means accepting limitations on your freedom to just breed anything...Catherine McMillan
" A reinforced consolidation of the American and British standards could be the basis for restoring our breed to the gladiatorial glory of its ancient past, in capability if not in usage".....Norman Howard Carp-Gordon
"I can live with doubt, or not knowing, rather than to have answers that might be wrong"...Richard Feynman
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steveoifer

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Reply with quote  #124 

1923 calendar


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For the betterment of the breed

"Above all, a uniform type should be aimed at by breeders and uniformity of type can only exist in a proportionate ratio in the purity and distinctiveness in any breed"!.........M. Moore
"If breeds did not adhere to a specific shape, form, and colour range, or if breeders disregarded this blueprint, the breed would degenerate to the point that it would hardly resemble the breed at all. Selective breeding does not just create breeds- it preserves them as well." Breeding purebred dogs inherently means accepting limitations on your freedom to just breed anything...Catherine McMillan
" A reinforced consolidation of the American and British standards could be the basis for restoring our breed to the gladiatorial glory of its ancient past, in capability if not in usage".....Norman Howard Carp-Gordon
"I can live with doubt, or not knowing, rather than to have answers that might be wrong"...Richard Feynman
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steveoifer

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Reply with quote  #125 

100 yr old photo


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For the betterment of the breed

"Above all, a uniform type should be aimed at by breeders and uniformity of type can only exist in a proportionate ratio in the purity and distinctiveness in any breed"!.........M. Moore
"If breeds did not adhere to a specific shape, form, and colour range, or if breeders disregarded this blueprint, the breed would degenerate to the point that it would hardly resemble the breed at all. Selective breeding does not just create breeds- it preserves them as well." Breeding purebred dogs inherently means accepting limitations on your freedom to just breed anything...Catherine McMillan
" A reinforced consolidation of the American and British standards could be the basis for restoring our breed to the gladiatorial glory of its ancient past, in capability if not in usage".....Norman Howard Carp-Gordon
"I can live with doubt, or not knowing, rather than to have answers that might be wrong"...Richard Feynman
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