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steveoifer

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Reply with quote  #1 

The standard states:

"Proportion - Rectangular, the length of the dog from forechest to rump is somewhat longer than the height at the withers."

Define "somewhat"?

I've seen dogs which look too long and have long necks to boot! They might be "balanced", but they look "wrong"!

What say you?


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For the betterment of the breed

"Above all, a uniform type should be aimed at by breeders and uniformity of type can only exist in a proportionate ratio in the purity and distinctiveness in any breed"!.........M. Moore
"If breeds did not adhere to a specific shape, form, and colour range, or if breeders disregarded this blueprint, the breed would degenerate to the point that it would hardly resemble the breed at all. Selective breeding does not just create breeds- it preserves them as well." Breeding purebred dogs inherently means accepting limitations on your freedom to just breed anything...Catherine McMillan
" A reinforced consolidation of the American and British standards could be the basis for restoring our breed to the gladiatorial glory of its ancient past, in capability if not in usage".....Norman Howard Carp-Gordon
"I can live with doubt, or not knowing, rather than to have answers that might be wrong"...Richard Feynman
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LazarusMastiffs

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Reply with quote  #2 

Hi Steve.  The correct proportions are 3 x 5.  If you can imagine a 3 x 5 note card placed over the body, it should fit in their perfectly to be correct.


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Chris Murphy
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steveoifer

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Reply with quote  #3 

How did you arrive at that measurement?


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For the betterment of the breed

"Above all, a uniform type should be aimed at by breeders and uniformity of type can only exist in a proportionate ratio in the purity and distinctiveness in any breed"!.........M. Moore
"If breeds did not adhere to a specific shape, form, and colour range, or if breeders disregarded this blueprint, the breed would degenerate to the point that it would hardly resemble the breed at all. Selective breeding does not just create breeds- it preserves them as well." Breeding purebred dogs inherently means accepting limitations on your freedom to just breed anything...Catherine McMillan
" A reinforced consolidation of the American and British standards could be the basis for restoring our breed to the gladiatorial glory of its ancient past, in capability if not in usage".....Norman Howard Carp-Gordon
"I can live with doubt, or not knowing, rather than to have answers that might be wrong"...Richard Feynman
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LazarusMastiffs

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Reply with quote  #4 

LOL  You got me there Steve.  I heard that so many times and so long ago that I can't really remember who it was that originally told me that. Touche'  

I believe it was from breeder/judge in the UK, but I am afraid to mention the name for fear of being wrong now!!  LOL  Chris


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Chris Murphy
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LEXIMSTF

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Reply with quote  #5 

I too have heard that reference made to index or post cards for proper length, but cannot recall the original source either, go figure!


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LazarusMastiffs

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Reply with quote  #6 

Thanks Erica.  I am glad I am not the only one.  LOL  When I started thinking about it, several people came to mind, but for the life of me I can't remember well enough to say for certain any of them told me that.  When I forget things like that I always think back to when I was little.  We had a pond in the neighborhood that I used to go fishing in everyday after school.  For a while, I used to actually chew on the lead sinkers before my dad caught me.  LOL  I wonder if that has anything to do with it.....  What were we talking about?  LOL


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Chris Murphy
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steveoifer

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Reply with quote  #7 

Strength in numbers, or majority rule does not mean that the dimensions are "fixed" or correct!

 

The standard is nebulous and needs to be clearer, otherwise there will be anecdotal "proof", which in reality means very little!


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For the betterment of the breed

"Above all, a uniform type should be aimed at by breeders and uniformity of type can only exist in a proportionate ratio in the purity and distinctiveness in any breed"!.........M. Moore
"If breeds did not adhere to a specific shape, form, and colour range, or if breeders disregarded this blueprint, the breed would degenerate to the point that it would hardly resemble the breed at all. Selective breeding does not just create breeds- it preserves them as well." Breeding purebred dogs inherently means accepting limitations on your freedom to just breed anything...Catherine McMillan
" A reinforced consolidation of the American and British standards could be the basis for restoring our breed to the gladiatorial glory of its ancient past, in capability if not in usage".....Norman Howard Carp-Gordon
"I can live with doubt, or not knowing, rather than to have answers that might be wrong"...Richard Feynman
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LazarusMastiffs

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Reply with quote  #8 

That is true.  Do you believe that there was no correct proportion in mind when that standard was written?  There are still breeders alive that have 65 and 75 years of experience.  Yes, that is very old.  LOL  I guess we could always ask them what was intended when it was written.


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Chris Murphy
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LazarusMastiffs

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Reply with quote  #9 

I agree that is should be clarified.  If I were in charge, it would be.  LOL


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Chris Murphy
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steveoifer

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Reply with quote  #10 

Chris,

 

Anything anyone can tell you about that issue, including me, will only be their personal opinion. That opinion, even if it is a 70 year old opinion, is still just one person's view.

 

The standard needs to clarify this issue and in so doing, will prevent 250 lb dachshunds from appearing in time!


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For the betterment of the breed

"Above all, a uniform type should be aimed at by breeders and uniformity of type can only exist in a proportionate ratio in the purity and distinctiveness in any breed"!.........M. Moore
"If breeds did not adhere to a specific shape, form, and colour range, or if breeders disregarded this blueprint, the breed would degenerate to the point that it would hardly resemble the breed at all. Selective breeding does not just create breeds- it preserves them as well." Breeding purebred dogs inherently means accepting limitations on your freedom to just breed anything...Catherine McMillan
" A reinforced consolidation of the American and British standards could be the basis for restoring our breed to the gladiatorial glory of its ancient past, in capability if not in usage".....Norman Howard Carp-Gordon
"I can live with doubt, or not knowing, rather than to have answers that might be wrong"...Richard Feynman
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bridgette

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Reply with quote  #11 

bump


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Bridgette
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goldleaf

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Reply with quote  #12 
Bumping to save thread
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madchemist

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Reply with quote  #13 
Does a dog grow steadily lengthwise as it grows heightwise? Or are there occasions when a dog will lengthen without growing up?



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Clinton Shuey
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lizardsmastiffs

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Reply with quote  #14 
Clinton,
The monster Emmett, grows up, then gets length. At one point I was wishing he was longer, now he is! He listens so well!  The girls are growing more even.

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liz
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madchemist

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Reply with quote  #15 
great Liz thats just what I wanted to hear.
Duke is as tall as my boy Tank but is lacking several inches of having the same length.

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Clinton Shuey
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Reply with quote  #16 
Ernie does the same, comes and goes. I'm quite sure he will end up with good length though.
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goldleaf

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Reply with quote  #17 


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WalnutCrest

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Reply with quote  #18 
I do not know what it should be, but a possible guide would be to consider the dimentions of the Golden Rectange, the Fibonnaci numbers, and related proportions.

1:1.618

This proportion is seen in many applications in nature, architecture, music and other natural and artistic arenas.  No reason to think that it couldn't apply to Mastiffs like it does to humans.

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