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Reply with quote  #101 

Monica . . . hello?!? LOL! My issue is that when we buy the meat from the grocery store there isn't any hide or furr attached, and I kinda feel like that stuff might be helpful in passing the bone. I think I said that already though!

Ummm, yeah I bet we could get in some trouble!


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Monica

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Reply with quote  #102 
Uh Oh!! Mine's a keeper - love him, love him!! I have a feeling you might be doing okay....?

So, what do the experienced raw feeders say about fur and hide?  I think the dogs rip thru the fur and hide in the wild and (excuse the graffic explanation) and then they dig in and thru - I would imagine they avoid the hide and fur as much as possible.

Anyone??


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Reply with quote  #103 
Monica,

Personally I would increase monty's overall caloric intake keeping the same meat:bone ratios that are working for him now and put him through some high intesity workouts. You want the weight to be muscle right? Just eating more does not add muscle unless the mastiff is pumped full of growth hormone and testosterone, monty probably isnt growing a whole lot so he doesnt have the "juice" that george or dreamer have right now.  

Just pat the liver dry with paper towels and throw it in the dehydrater for X hours and walla, you have liver bait.

On the fur/hide: I have only tested it once. Last summer I shot a groundhog at my parents house. Tank wouldnt touch the furry little beast until I opened his belly up. Then it was feast city. He ate all the entrails, and ate most of the hide off the belly.


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Reply with quote  #104 
If you can get your dog to eat the fur and all wonderful  it does help them pass the bone better  tried it Sir Thor said nope He likes his a bit more civilized.


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Monica

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Reply with quote  #105 
Thanks Clinton - yes, its muscle that he needs, but he also could use a bit more substance (fat) I think.  So, when feeding raw - I really don't know how to increase his "caloric" intake - suggestions?  Kristen suggested oats and some ricotta type cheese  - any other suggestions?

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madchemist

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Reply with quote  #106 
If your just wanting to fatten him up then give him pig tails, pig feet, chicken fat, lard. Mastiffs love cracklins too. Just adding a small amount to his diet will work pretty fast, dont overdo it or it'll be squirt city.

I remove the skin and fat from the chicken quarters I feed, does everybody else do this?

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Reply with quote  #107 
No, I leave all fat on...if I start to have a problem at some point with weight issues, I would consider removing...but it's part of the chicken, so I leave it be.

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Monica

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Reply with quote  #108 
I've been leaving it all on. What in the heck are cracklins :-)

I really like the raw feeding, you can almost gauge it from day-to-day. Dreamer looked a bit chunky yesterday, so cut-back today, tomorrow she'll be down a bit. Also, I am sure its a coincidence and just time for it to go down - but her hygroma is quickly getting smaller - hmm! I wonder if the raw feeding his helping her body heal that area that she must have banged to potentially cause the hygroma???


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Monica
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Reply with quote  #109 
Anybody have any opinions on the quarantines of pigs & chickens too now?

The pigs are in California's Central Valley-which is where I am. I had been feeding a fairly high percentage of pork . . . GEEZ is anything safe anymore?

One really nice thing about the way my guys were transitioned is that they were getting all of thier meat raw with the homecooking-only they were getting other stuff too, so I really haven't had any issues aside from Libby blowing chunks all over at 5 this morning eeeeeeewwwwwwwww!

Can anyone tell me (I don't have a scale and don't really want to buy one) if I am about right that a chicken leg & thigh would weigh (on the average) 1.25 pounds? Right now I just grab a can of something out of the cupboard and compare the weights-I know real scientific lol!

Barrie


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madchemist

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Reply with quote  #110 
Where you from Monica???? California??? LOL

Cracklins are what you have left after the pig's skin/lard is cooked down and pressed.

Barrie, when I buy chicken quarters from the processor's they weight ~1.2-1.3lb/piece (31-33/40lb case). These are from huge beast chickens that are way too big to be sold to the grocery stores. Normal market broilers are 3.9lbs, and the whole birds I get average 6.25lbs(12birds/75lb case). In short, normal grocery sized chicken quarters should average 0.8lbs/piece.

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Reply with quote  #111 
Hey Man!

I'm in CA and I knew what cracklins' were!   

Maybe it has more to do with what side of the tracks you shop lol?

The Hispanic market I went into yesterday had huge ones (lol cracklins'), like 3 feet long! Oh I wanted to feed the butcher boy for my dogs' raw dinner yesterday!

I asked the KID what was cheap, he says burrito meat .17 cents a pound.
I asked SEVENTY? He says no SEVENTEEN, I asked again SEVEN ZERO?
He says no ONE SEVEN. I said are you SURE? He says yeah. I said do you have about 50 pounds? He comes back and says yeah, sure. I asked AGAIN, are you sure .17 cents per pound (now I am kicking myself lol)? He says let me go ask. Comes back and says no, it's 2.39. I asked are you going to give me a break on that price now? He says no.

Okay, so I just saved your butt and I get nothing out ofthe deal, I am thinking I am not going back to that store!

Barrie
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Reply with quote  #112 
I cut off most of the fat.
I love raw feeding too.  I've taken two pounds off one of my dogs (pit mix) in 2 weeks from exercise and cutting back on food!
It's so easy!

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Monica

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Reply with quote  #113 
Clinton - as I wandered thru the only market up here where I thought I might find them if I asked, I thought I bet he's chuckling right now because I'm from CA and don't  have a clue about what these things are....LOL!!! 

The great thing that happened today is the butcher at this market gave me the name of a small butcher up the hill (closer to me) where I should be able to find some better deals and more "parts :-)"


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Reply with quote  #114 
Monica,

I'm laughing with you on the cracklins.  They sell them in big tubs here.  If you want to get really creative you can get duck and chicken feet too.    They really gross me out, so I don't buy them.  I was a California girl as a small child (born in San Diego), but am a Virginian as I've lived most of my life here.  Remember when I had to ask you about soy milk and raw pumpkin seeds?  BTW, the dogs love the raw pumpkin seeds too, esp lil Oscar!  And soy milk is different, but a good different!
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Monica

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Reply with quote  #115 
Okay, can we talk organs??

Dreamer is doing the best on this diet; she eats, gets the job done, is not picky and its great.

George and Monty cannot seem to be bothered, even if I try and let them go hungry for the day... with organs - of any kind.  Beef heart seems to be the only think that they might have a few bites of. 

George seems a bit slower lately, but its been warming up here from 60s to the 80's in a matter of a few days... I am just wondering if his  pickiness and not eating enough organs at this point could be slowing him - maybe not enough vitamins, iron, etc. 

So, they love ritz crackers.  I am going to try and coat the beef heart in ritz crackers (I know you all are laughing).  But is there a supplement any would suggest in the interim until I can get these two boys up and going on the organs a bit better?

Thanks


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Monica
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Reply with quote  #116 
Monica,

I read somewhere that coating stuff in fish oil works for some. Mine eat everything (meaty wise), although Sunny is now turning her nose up at her favorite carrots.

My next question is what to do about blood stained, smelly fawn legs? Mine use thier paws to hold the meat and they are gross!

Barrie

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giselle

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Reply with quote  #117 
Monica,

Just remember that most consider beef heart muscle meat, not organ meat. I feed a lot of beef heart but i do not count it in the organs I need to feed.  Have you tried slightly sauteing the organs a little? They might eat that...
Or putting it in the blender with some regular meats and a touch of garlic powder? I buy organ mixes pre-made so I don't really have an issue and just mix it in..The only organ that i feed whole is beef and chicken livers and mine like it fine....

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Monica

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Reply with quote  #118 
Thanks so much Giselle!

Jann suggested I try some garlic as well - so I will do that and try a quick saute' to see if that helps...I am also using chicken livers, hearts and gizzards.  Giselle - where do you get the organ mix - that sounds easy and all inclusive... ??

Hi Barrie :-) Shower in a Bottle - spray it on and towel it off - it works really well and I've been using a lot of it lately ;-)


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Reply with quote  #119 
Okay Monica!

What is shower in a bottle and where do you get it?

Barrie
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giselle

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Reply with quote  #120 

We have a raw coop here in austin so we have multiple suppliers...hare today, oma's pride, slankers, etc...Most of the items I get are from Oma's. They have organ mixes that include heart but it still has lots of kidney and liver. I cannot stand slicing up kidney -- it reeks. I also feed a lot of their ground mixes which have the organs,bones, meat and veggies already in it and so that's how I get organs in them.  I've gotten a couple of organ mixes from Hare-today. I know that Bravo has them too but i haven't tried those. Aunt Jeni's should have them as well. I only tried their tripe though.

The one thing about the coop that I really like is that I can feed a lot of variety.  I make sure they get 6-7 different protein sources a week....(beef, turkey, lamb, chicken, buffalo, fish, duck, rabbit, quail). I feed more beef than anything else though because I have several beef products that I like from them:  feed it as plain beef hearts, performance dog (ground beef bone,beef, trachea, and tripe), their beef and veggie mix, and their beef organ mix.  So I would say that about 25% of my dogs protein is beef and the rest is more or less evenly distributed with the other sources.   The reason I bring this up is that California has the biggest raw coop, i think!  I love our coop and couldn't feed what i am now without it.

I do a LOT more pre-made mixes with the puppies (Cid and now Coda) than I do with my adults. It just makes me feel better.  I had no growth issues with Cider.  We'll see how Coda does!


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Monica

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Reply with quote  #121 
That is great info Giselle - thanks so much.   Should I just do a CA raw feeders coop search?  Do you know of a coop connection in CA?  Okay, one more question...

When you order from your coop, I'm assuming its local and you have to go pick it up..


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giselle

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Reply with quote  #122 

This is the one I know about

http://www.socalbarf.com/SoCalBARF/Welcome.html

Our coop manager talks to this person often, i think...and there's one in fremont too that she has mentioned...


The one that I belong to, you have to pick up the day it arrives from a coop members house. We are all in the austin area. We take turns taking deliveries and every member has to do one coop job a year (either accepting a delivery, helping with the website, searching for suppliers, helping with a delivery, etc etc)

ps--this one is ours:  http://www.arfcoop.org/

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Monica

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Reply with quote  #123 
Thanks Giselle - I emailed the contact person closest to me.  So, what you are feeding is the BARF diet?  If so, is everything pre-mixed or do you feed some in whole part?  Curious.

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Monica
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giselle

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Reply with quote  #124 
Yes, I do a more Billinghurst style diet.  Most of the people in my coop do and so does Cid's breeder so that's who I lean on mostly for advice.. I started raw feeding about 5 years ago and started with only pre-packaged. The first few times, I just used the Nature's Intent brand that's made here in TX and is available at shows.  Now, I use Oma's complete mixes maybe 50% of the time and more like 75-80% when they are puppies (i include performance dog in that estimate) .  In addition, I feed the "whole" animal ground products they have -- rabbit, quail, and pheasant.  I use their organ mixes, and ground veggie mixes.  For whole stuff, RMBs,  I feed duck necks, chicken parts (backs, frames, necks, and sometimes but rarely legs), mackerel, rabbit.  I also feed beef,chicken,pork liver, hearts and pork and beef muscle meat and eggs outside of the mixes.  We used to have a good source of goat muscle meat trimmings but haven't had any luck the last few months. A long time ago, I used to add those whole lamb riblets but two of the coop members had VERY bad issues with it so i stick with soft bones for whole RMBs.   I'm not comfortable with any beef bones of any sort so I give those type of things ground.

I try to do about 10-15% organs, 25-35% bone, 35-45% muscle meat, and 15-20% vegetables. These aren't balanced on a day by day basis but I try to get the ratios on a week to week basis. I don't add yogurt or cottage cheese or anything else to this. For meats, I generally rotate on a meal by meal basis. Sometimes, I do 2-3 different types of meals in one serving (like beef hearts, turky organs, and some ground rabbit).  My veggies are from Oma's Pride -- either that already in the mixes they sell, or I rotate between their fruit blend, their 5-veggie mix and their 3 veggie mix.
 
This seems to be working for my dogs and it's easy (i'm lazy)....



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Monica

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Reply with quote  #125 
Thanks Giselle - great info! 

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Monica
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