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Reply with quote  #126 
I've got a bit of a problem with lazy dog syndrome I think. Ernie has recently had some very "easy" meals and now he's not very motivated to work for his food...i.e. RMB
I think he got spoiled by the easy meals and now I find myself having to trick him to eat RMB by slicing pieces of meat off enough to dangle from the bone. Once he starts eating he goes for it but unless I motivate him somehow to get started he pouts and waits for something easier.

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Monica

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Reply with quote  #127 
Oh boy, have I seen that pouty face around here. Monty is the worst, but I am finding different approaches that are helping. I am still doing the RMB and will stick with that for now. they are getting pretty good about the RMB chewing and I'm seeing them want to work more - which is good.

Today I was able to feed kidney! Yes!!! I crunched up a bunch of ritz crackers and put them in a zip lock - shook up the cutup kidney to coat them and down they went. They all ate them without any hesitation - and Giselle you are right, the kidney smells terrible!


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Monica
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Reply with quote  #128 
Angie,
I think Ernie has "Picky Boy Syndrome!"  LOL  My Louie and Kim's Harry were like this - it's hormones coming into play.  So far, Muffet and Pierre (and I believe Duke too) are the piggiest eaters I've ever seen.  Serious bottomless pits. 
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Monica

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Reply with quote  #129 

Kristen, what are you feeding Ernie? I have two chis.....


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Monica
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Reply with quote  #130 

I rarely give eggs, but gave each dog a raw, whole egg today.  It was a first for the puppies and for Bling.  The puppies were really funny to watch as they took the egg, dropped it to the ground and watched in amazement as it went splat.  Even funnier was Bling Bling.  She took the egg, ever-so-gently, and carried it around in her mouth for a good, entire minute without so much as a crack in it.  She would definately win the summertime egg-in-a-spoon contest.  LOL

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Monica

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Reply with quote  #131 
Okay, I have to stir the pot a bit here....

I called to chat with the vet tech today - haven't received a call back - about raw.  Haven't ever talked to the vet because there seems to be stigma attached to vets and negativity about raw.  I wanted tho to be able to bring the kids in a few weeks from now and have a panel done to make sure their blood work is balanced with this new diet.  I also asked about supps I should maybe be giving.

My vet is very supportive and not pushy, but... we did have a conversation about salmonella and all the other things that go along with feeding raw that the dogs can possibly encounter.  I said "but it is my understanding that their systems can accomodate these ailments."  She said, "in the wild their bodies are more able to fight these ailments and overcome them, sometimes just live with them, but now we have domesticated our dogs for centuries and their bodies are not made up the same way as the wild dogs...."

Of course, being an over cautious mommy, this basically didn't set well with me.  We talked about Monty and how picky he is and she said, with Monty maybe he does need to be on a diet that is raw if that's what he'll eat and how you need to keep good weight on him... Sighhh.

So, can we talk parasites?  What about them...how common are they, etc?


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Monica
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Reply with quote  #132 
Monica,
If you were feeding raw salmon or something I'd say worry about parasites.  But I haven't heard of a dog getting parasites from raw meat.  One of my vets feeds raw and sells several raw, frozen diets.  I think catching salmonella is very rare for dogs.  I'm sure it happens, but I would think it would be only likely to happen in a dog with a compromised immune system.  Now, with young puppies, I don't know.  (I'm talking under 8 wks).  I do know that lots of folks feed raw to their litters.  Geri McDonald feeds all of her Mastiffs and litters strictly raw, and never had an issue. 
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Reply with quote  #133 
Monica,

There is one thing you need to be aware of with salmon-SPD or salmon poisoning disease. The infected fish are found in the Pacific Northwest from San Francisco to the coast of Alaska. I can elaborate more later if you like.
I am getting my information out of the Merck Vet Manual.

Barrie
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Reply with quote  #134 
I think it's trichimonas (sp?)...just don't feed raw fish.  I feed canned mackeral and occasional salmon (more pricey).  Don't give your dogs a smooch after the mackeral.  I have been feeding little Oscar a raw frozen diet from several manufacturers:
Nature's Variety
K9 Kraving
Bravo
His coat looks great (in Oscar-style of course), and he's full of energy (not that that was ever lacking ). 
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Reply with quote  #135 
I've been feeding raw for 7 or 8 years now. My dogs have never had parasites or even worms with this diet.
Commercial dog food has only really been around for 100 years or so. Before that, our domesticated dogs ate scraps and raw food (whatever their people gave them or they could find). 100 years is not enough time for a dog's digestive system to evolve to only digest "dog food".
As for salmon, my vet (who also feeds raw) has recommended that I only feed Atlantic Salmon because of the parasites in the Pacific Salmon.

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Reply with quote  #136 
I agree with Kate, but 100 years is even an exaggeration - the whole pet food industry only really took off after wwii. On top of that "quality" dog food is even younger. For fish I usually give whole mackerel or sardines that have been frozen about once a week. With our fish stocks in such a state of crisis I don't want to give fish too often and prefer the small ones that take less time to reach maturity.
Atlantic Salmon stocks have hit an all time low....
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2004/06/03/salmon040603.html


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Reply with quote  #137 
I meant to add, if I was to feed salmon.  I don't very often as salmon is expensive.  I do sardines packed in water or canned mackerel.  My older dogs would eat sand eels fresh from the water while we were fishing!
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Reply with quote  #138 
What is the general conscensus on pork neck bones? I found a butcher who is really into helping me do this and he said that he gets great deals on very meaty pork neck bones. Today he gave me about 50 pounds of meat & bones for $7.oo! I think I read somewhere that the bones were too sharp or something? Also what about marrow bones, he gave me some of those today?

Oh Sunny is finally gaining weight!!! And Yager no longer qualifies as morbidly obese, only overweight!!! YAY!!! Progress!

Barrie
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Monica

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Reply with quote  #139 
Well, you guys I have to say that I had no progress.  I thought at first that Monty's pickyness was going away, but soon he acted the same way with the raw as he does with kibble.  Since I don't have "runs" or "kennels" to actually put them and leave them with their food for the day, it became a real chore to feed.  I'd end up standing with the three of them hand feeding.  G&D did fine.  Monty continued to be a bit underweight and not eat remotely as much as them.  Someone had runny stools a lot over the last week and it was not Monty, one of the pups...and I was still finding chunks of bone in the runny stool.  They were also eating a lot of grass. 

Soooo, we are shifting back to kibble for now.  G&D are thrilled and happily eating kibble with some raw still mixed in.  I am going to try some stews and mixes to put over the kibble...

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Reply with quote  #140 
Barrie, I feed mine pork neck bones once a week.  They love them!  I have fed them a lot in the past when I got great deals on them (when I lived elsewhere).


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Reply with quote  #141 
I feed pork neck bones frequently. My grocery store actually orders a case for me at about $1/lb. My dogs have never had a problem with them. I find it to be a nice alternative to chicken.
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Reply with quote  #142 
That's fantastic about the pork neck bones I think he said he could get them for me at about .50 cents per pound.

How about the marrow bones? Can someone tell me if they are safe, or too hard?

Barrie
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Reply with quote  #143 
I like the pork necks too, they are relatively cheap and the ones I get seem to be very meaty. I can't find any good beef bones myself. I think the general advice is to stay away from the big long bones because the are too hard and break off in really big pieces that might cause a problem. Also the smaller bones will have more meat on them too I think.
Monica, sorry to hear about your picky boy, I know when Ernie doesn't want to eat much it only lasts a short while but it drives me up the wall (not faux stone LOL)

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Reply with quote  #144 
any load bearing bone is very hard  as a rec bone and being under supervision they will suck out the marrow which is goo for them but... some dogs it can cause  the runs and some have reported vomiting   I use them as rec bones once in a while 

Pork neck bones are great for dogs as long as you watch how they are cut  not too small for the dogs  must have lots of meat  or feed more meat with them 

I am sorry Monty is not eating - have you tried lightly grilling his meal and feeding him in another room or does he have a crate.  Sir Thor can take all day to eat his meal  I lightly grill his chicken (and maybe a bit of BBQ sauce)since he will not eat a poultry product raw.  He loves beef raw and will eat beef liver raw but not poultry. 

I will take Giselle's advice and use a bit of the frozen product as soon as I can find a supplier in my area. 

I really cannot say they will never get salmonella  as I talked with a breeder that had a dog come down with a case of it.    I try to use good food handling techniques and keep all areas clean   I feed human grade  and hope that is good enough for me and the dogs.

With our dogs they really do not eat large amounts of raw  Hey if you sleep 20 or so hours a day  how much fuel do you need.  Now as Giselle has performance dogs (competing in conformation and agility I believe) then yes they will eat a bit more  Know your dog and feed appropriately. 

I truly think we are doing a good thing for our dogs .









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Reply with quote  #145 
I agree, we are doing a great thing for our dogs.
I'm not trying to start anything and am only saying what *I* do when one of my dogs attempts an act of "pickiness". I simply pick up their food and they don't eat for that meal. I refrigerate their meal and offer it at the next meal (they usually eat it right up). I have never had a dog go without eating for longer than a day.
I also find the pork neck bones that I get are so meaty as they are sold in the grocery store for human consumption. I guess people eat them (maybe on the grill??? ).

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CapeWind

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Reply with quote  #146 
Hi Folks,

I'm really not back on the boards yet (I sent an update a few minutes ago) but I had to chime in on this subject! I am thrilled to see so much chatter on this board! I think all the issues going on in the kibble world may just get a few more fence sitters to make the switch. Some dogs can be a bit tricky getting switched, but they CAN be switched!!!

Monica .. You got this far, don't you dare quit now!!! Email me privately and I'll help you with Mr Picky.

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TommyD

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Reply with quote  #147 

Anyone have any experience feeding rabbit? From what Ive read its either they love it or wont touch it. Was wondering what the consenses on here was.


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CapeWind

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Reply with quote  #148 

Hi Tommy,

None of my dogs would eat a whole dressed rabbit. I tried them from multi suppliers, and no luck. With that said, Dragon loved "fast food". AKA, we would have hundreds of baby bunnies in the yard each year, and she would fill up on them. She wouldn't bother the other critters that wandered into the yard, but baby bunnies were a quick snack. We gave up trying to rescue to bunnies from her...

PS .. Any new pics of Caesar???


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Reply with quote  #149 
My dogs will eat ground rabbit. I've never given it to Bixby. It's expensive so I'm thinking she won't be getting any!
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Reply with quote  #150 
My grocery also sells beef neck bones cut up w/ ample meat.  The dogs love them.  I give them once a week.  I've been trying to give as much variety as possible - it depends on what the stores have...and I found a source for green tripe.  A typical week here consists of:
Chicken Backs
Chicken Leg Quarters
Turkey Necks
Pork Necks
Beef Neckbone (cut up)
Pigs feet
1 all meat day (Beef Heart OR Liver OR Chicken Hearts/Gizzards; ground beef, green tripe)
Whole Bird (either chicken or hen)
I've been feeding everyone together - I had out each piece to each dog at a time (except for Sinatra who has to be kenneled to eat - otherwise, he just plays with his food ).  It took about a month to come up w/ a good routine/combo of food....Between the 3 adult Mastiffs and 2 puppy Mastiffs, I go through 20 lbs a day (which costs me between $7-$8 a day). 


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