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steveoifer

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Reply with quote  #101 

Carl,

 

Just who defines correct?

 

You?

 

Me?

 

A group?

 

I don't know that much, I'm not that arrogant!

 

Throughout mastiff history, there have been little groups that formed and decided that "THEY" knew what "correct" expression was. Those who dissented were banned ( e.g. Wynn, Oliver's etc.). It's a purely subjective matter and the type of mastiff that you "personally" favor usually seems to carry the "correct" expression to your frame of reference!

 

Why have you brought expression into the issue? It cannot be quantified and therefore cannot be challenged! Just like the other nebulous issues in the British standard. It enables people to become experts, based on peer pressure, cliques and smoke & mirrors!

 

Unfortunately, you've come to the wrong person to discuss such nonsense!

 

Bloodhounds also have an expression!


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For the betterment of the breed

"Above all, a uniform type should be aimed at by breeders and uniformity of type can only exist in a proportionate ratio in the purity and distinctiveness in any breed"!.........M. Moore
"If breeds did not adhere to a specific shape, form, and colour range, or if breeders disregarded this blueprint, the breed would degenerate to the point that it would hardly resemble the breed at all. Selective breeding does not just create breeds- it preserves them as well." Breeding purebred dogs inherently means accepting limitations on your freedom to just breed anything...Catherine McMillan
" A reinforced consolidation of the American and British standards could be the basis for restoring our breed to the gladiatorial glory of its ancient past, in capability if not in usage".....Norman Howard Carp-Gordon
"I can live with doubt, or not knowing, rather than to have answers that might be wrong"...Richard Feynman
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Reply with quote  #102 

Steve,

 You don't need to belittle people to "prove" your "point".  Your "idea" of teaching could use some refinement.   Why don't you try taking some lessons from some of these other fine people. 

 

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Reply with quote  #103 
Steve I don't think it is about 'who' defines anything....I think what Carl  identified is a learning process that breeders undertake.....and a mutual consensus from sharing that. The 'art of breeding' as a refinement of the 'science of breeding' maybe?
Still interested to hear any perpectives on eyes?

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Reply with quote  #104 
Steve,
What's the use of this kind discussion when you don't understand simple facts as "correct expression that is agreed on by most of the breeders". You call it nonsense. That's fine with me. I call it the most essential element of breeding Mastiffs. When you don't understand this, you don't understand the Mastiff. Of course bloodhounds have an expression. What's your point? What makes you think I came to you. This forum is meant for general information. When you can't stand the heat of the kitchen then I suggest you to stay out of it. It might burn you at the end.
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Reply with quote  #105 
Karen, it's very hard to judge puppies just by pictures. I personally always selected on head type but I wouldn't take a puppy that isn't sound. From those three I probably would go for the 3rd. I follow up my puppies day by day and make a first selection at three weeks. When I still agree with this choice at the age of 6 weeks, I pick that pup. Most of the time this is a correct choice. Realize though that in a low quality litter this can be a bad choice. Sometimes it's better not to take any of them at all.
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Reply with quote  #106 
Carl I kept 2 of the pups, another in co-ownership and wished I'd kept the 4th pup now as well!..hahaha..I will get more experienced in time no doubt and not need to keep everything just in case I got it wrong!
I will definately be looking out  for 'expression' now we have had this discussion and conferring with others as well.....thanks
regards karen


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steveoifer

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Reply with quote  #107 

Karen, Rebecca & Carl,

 

Combined cluelessness, is still cluelessness!

 

Peer pressure, cliques and herd mentalities, are what ruins breeds.

 

The "expression du jour" in esoteric form, only observed by the elite and those in the "know"!

 

What haughty BS!

 

EVERY dog has a "great" expression.

 

Personal likes, tastes, fancies etc. are what contributes to the favored expression of any era.....in error, I might add! It's a people thing, not a dog thing!

 

Shared delusions, are still delusions! Safety in numbers, are for those that are basically clueless and need group reassurance.

 

Expression is concocted in the same manner as any other aspect of the dog.

 

When there is balance and proper proportions, based on the interpretation of the standard, the dog is deemed to show proper expression.

 

I wasn't hired to be your teacher Rebecca!

 

I put out information, no more, no less! If some learn from that, fine!

 

 


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For the betterment of the breed

"Above all, a uniform type should be aimed at by breeders and uniformity of type can only exist in a proportionate ratio in the purity and distinctiveness in any breed"!.........M. Moore
"If breeds did not adhere to a specific shape, form, and colour range, or if breeders disregarded this blueprint, the breed would degenerate to the point that it would hardly resemble the breed at all. Selective breeding does not just create breeds- it preserves them as well." Breeding purebred dogs inherently means accepting limitations on your freedom to just breed anything...Catherine McMillan
" A reinforced consolidation of the American and British standards could be the basis for restoring our breed to the gladiatorial glory of its ancient past, in capability if not in usage".....Norman Howard Carp-Gordon
"I can live with doubt, or not knowing, rather than to have answers that might be wrong"...Richard Feynman
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Reply with quote  #108 
Steve, you are entitled to your opinion and you can call me clueless and delusional if you please...I am more than used to your tantrums (I do wonder though if someone should of rolled you on your back more when you were a puppy LOL)...
I must however respectfully disagree with you in regards to Becki and Carl.

Anybody who consistently produces  stunning quality mastiffs as Carl and Becki do are certainly not clueless and delusional..anyone in their right mind would know this.








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steveoifer

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Reply with quote  #109 

Karen,

 

Enjoy your little clique. You all deserve each other!


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For the betterment of the breed

"Above all, a uniform type should be aimed at by breeders and uniformity of type can only exist in a proportionate ratio in the purity and distinctiveness in any breed"!.........M. Moore
"If breeds did not adhere to a specific shape, form, and colour range, or if breeders disregarded this blueprint, the breed would degenerate to the point that it would hardly resemble the breed at all. Selective breeding does not just create breeds- it preserves them as well." Breeding purebred dogs inherently means accepting limitations on your freedom to just breed anything...Catherine McMillan
" A reinforced consolidation of the American and British standards could be the basis for restoring our breed to the gladiatorial glory of its ancient past, in capability if not in usage".....Norman Howard Carp-Gordon
"I can live with doubt, or not knowing, rather than to have answers that might be wrong"...Richard Feynman
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Reply with quote  #110 
Steve, I really believe you better go back to  laundry business and women's sportswear. You're better at this I've heard.
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Reply with quote  #111 
Steve I don't even know Carl!..and quite frankly... I would rather be in a clique of decent breeders than a CULT  led by you where no one can have a different opinion!!!
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Reply with quote  #112 

I wasn't hired to be your teacher Rebecca!

Thank God!

cause if I listened to you and took your advice I wouldn't have the quality dogs that I do right now. 

 

Becki

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steveoifer

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Reply with quote  #113 

Carl,

Unlike you, I don't have to go back, or Google you up to see what you're about!

 

Fortunately for me I do most things well, including the many other businesses that I'm involved in.

 

Unlike you, mastiffs have never been a business for me and I don't need to kiss up to anyone in this game.

 

Many have tried to discount me and my history in the breed. Give it your best shot!

 

If that's the only way you can counter valid points, then your attempt at bringing me down in order to build yourself up, is just another form of your own personal insecurity, which I pointed out to you earlier!

 

If you enjoy name calling, be my guest!

 

 


__________________
For the betterment of the breed

"Above all, a uniform type should be aimed at by breeders and uniformity of type can only exist in a proportionate ratio in the purity and distinctiveness in any breed"!.........M. Moore
"If breeds did not adhere to a specific shape, form, and colour range, or if breeders disregarded this blueprint, the breed would degenerate to the point that it would hardly resemble the breed at all. Selective breeding does not just create breeds- it preserves them as well." Breeding purebred dogs inherently means accepting limitations on your freedom to just breed anything...Catherine McMillan
" A reinforced consolidation of the American and British standards could be the basis for restoring our breed to the gladiatorial glory of its ancient past, in capability if not in usage".....Norman Howard Carp-Gordon
"I can live with doubt, or not knowing, rather than to have answers that might be wrong"...Richard Feynman
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Reply with quote  #114 

Fortunately for me I do most things well,

Matter of opinion

 

Many have tried to discount me and my history in the breed.

What history?  Did I miss something! 

 

If that's the only way you can counter valid points, then your attempt at bringing me down in order to build yourself up, is just another form of your personal insecurity,

If anyone is insecure it is you.  You have proven that time and time again.

 

 

If you enjoy name calling be my guest!

I don't recall Carl calling you names.  But you have called us clueless and delusional. 

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steveoifer

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Reply with quote  #115 

Spare me your childish pontifications Becki!

 

Subtle slander is still just that!

 

I'm just more honest than the three of you in my defense!

 

Carl implies clueless directed at me, you state that I have no class, but I'm just supposed to roll over and grin? I just come out and tell it like it is!

 

If you can't understand that, then you "are" clueless!

 

Enjoy your tag team approach in contributing debatable issues to this forum!

 

Attacking me doesn't change the topic!


__________________
For the betterment of the breed

"Above all, a uniform type should be aimed at by breeders and uniformity of type can only exist in a proportionate ratio in the purity and distinctiveness in any breed"!.........M. Moore
"If breeds did not adhere to a specific shape, form, and colour range, or if breeders disregarded this blueprint, the breed would degenerate to the point that it would hardly resemble the breed at all. Selective breeding does not just create breeds- it preserves them as well." Breeding purebred dogs inherently means accepting limitations on your freedom to just breed anything...Catherine McMillan
" A reinforced consolidation of the American and British standards could be the basis for restoring our breed to the gladiatorial glory of its ancient past, in capability if not in usage".....Norman Howard Carp-Gordon
"I can live with doubt, or not knowing, rather than to have answers that might be wrong"...Richard Feynman
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SilverKnight

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Reply with quote  #116 
I think I missed your introduction thread Carl - but I just wanted to Welcome you to the board. I enjoy your website and all of the fantastic information on it.

I look forward to seeing more pictures of your mastiffs!


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Reply with quote  #117 

If I understand correctly, this thread was about Type vs Height, not Steve vs Carl or Becky or Karen. Let's not get personal and get back to the original subject.

 

I think Steve put not the best picture of mastiff, illustrating English standard. I think dog has good attributes, like head, massiveness, correct front, but overall is this dog good enough to be bread? If anyone would ask my opinion, I would say"no".

I would never breed dog who has few desirable elements( head, type, correct front), because using this dog you will bring so many other elements which will may destroy your breeding program( in this case I disagree with Carl and don't think that that dog has good top line), I don't like that he is short coupled or lacking angulation in the rear.

 

I think that future of this breed is in our hands and we should not sacrifice and breed one dog or another only because he has this or that, it should be whole package dog, typey and correct and sound. And if not, then it should be a pet only. Anyone who wants to be a breeder should train his eye to be able to see difference between great and good, good and not so good and if you don't see that then do not breed. It is plenty pet quality mastiffs out there.

 

Olga

Ivory mastiffs

  

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Reply with quote  #118 
Steve,

I am having quite a difficult time understanding where you are coming from. You speak as though you have knowledge in the breed... you speak as if people who have been in this breed for so many years should know your qualifications... Unfortunately, no one who is on this board has ever heard of you or of your breedings. There are breeders here who are far more qualified than you. The only people you seem to entice are those who are newcomers to the breed and who know no better. For someone who is so involved as you claim to be...how is it that those who have been involved with the Mastiff have never heard of you before? I've shown quite a lot in New Jersey and throughout the Eastern Coast and have never come across your name in any catalog or any gathering. I fail to see how you can possible give advice to so many and yet have no experience with the advice you are giving.

I usually do not post on forums but, unfortunately you have taken advantage of this one. Unless you feel as if you are in control, no one else's opinion means a damn thing. You will always try to gain control regardless of the issues. Take this as you will but you have come onto this board and have attacked breeders who have more experience than you will ever have in your lifetime. You are very good at internet research ... I give you credit for that and also your Mastiff memorabilia... unfortunately, that does not give you the right to put down and demean long time breeders.

I was the membership Secretary of the old North and East and have known Tobin for quite some time now. I also am acquainted with other old time breeders who have been around during the 70's. These people have never heard of you before. You claim to be good friends with breeders here and there and you feel you do not need to substantiate your experience with the breed...humor us Steve... You speak as though the Mastiff world owes you their attention. You try to re-write a Standard which needs no further explanation. There comes a time when one has to wonder what your purpose is on this board. Please explain this to me.

I will save you the time Steve... I have only bred 3 litters. I am devoted to the breed and enjoy researching pedigrees on my spare time. I've involved myself with Mastiff rescue whenever possible and am a member of MCOA , MCB, OEMC and the Garden State Mastiff Fanciers. Feel free to check up on me... I don't care. I just cannot sit back any longer and read all your demeaning posts. You put down breeders who have contributed much to the breed and have bred some BIS winners.

Throughout my involvement with Mastiffs, I've had the good fortune of some wonderful mentors. I've been humbled by this breed and realize that it takes a lot of perseverance to excel in breeding Mastiffs. I've been involved with the breed since January 1988.

You have to realize one thing Steve... this is not your board. I sit back and look at how many posts you have made and, to be honest, it blows my mind! You can't stand it when someone, with knowledge in the breed, carries on a discussion with you and takes over the 'spotlight'.

I, and many others on this board, have just about enough of your ramblings. You rarely give credit where credit is due... instead you joke about things and always put down the other person.

You can take your best shot at me Steve....this is the last I will post to you. If you wish you may call me or e-mail me privately... I have said all I want to and this was a long time coming....

regards,

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steveoifer

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Reply with quote  #119 

Steve,

I am having quite a difficult time understanding where you are coming from. You speak as though you have knowledge in the breed... you speak as if people who have been in this breed for so many years should know your qualifications... Unfortunately, no one who is on this board has ever heard of you or of your breedings. There are breeders here who are far more qualified than you. The only people you seem to entice are those who are newcomers to the breed and who know no better. For someone who is so involved as you claim to be...how is it that those who have been involved with the Mastiff have never heard of you before? I've shown quite a lot in New Jersey and throughout the Eastern Coast and have never come across your name in any catalog or any gathering. I fail to see how you can possible give advice to so many and yet have no experience with the advice you are giving. You assume quiet a bit Bes, too bad you shoot first and ask questions after! Why not be a nice lady and ask me in a private e-mail first before you turn on me without any facts at your disposal?

I usually do not post on forums but, unfortunately you have taken advantage of this one. Unless you feel as if you are in control, no one else's opinion means a damn thing. You will always try to gain control regardless of the issues. Take this as you will but you have come onto this board and have attacked breeders who have more experience than you will ever have in your lifetime. Which "breeders" have "I" attacked? Is it possible that you are coming into the middle of prior angst from those people who are combining forces in an attempt to discredit me? You are very good at internet research ... I give you credit for that and also your Mastiff memorabilia... unfortunately, that does not give you the right to put down and demean long time breeders. I'm a counter puncher Bes!

I was the membership Secretary of the old North and East and have known Tobin for quite some time now. I also am acquainted with other old time breeders who have been around during the 70's. These people have never heard of you before. You claim to be good friends with breeders here and there and you feel you do not need to substantiate your experience with the breed...humor us Steve... You speak as though the Mastiff world owes you their attention. You try to re-write a Standard which needs no further explanation. I was asked to do it! I did it reluctantly!There comes a time when one has to wonder what your purpose is on this board. Please explain this to me. I don't owe you any explanation! If you had asked me nicely, perhaps I would have accommodated you! Who the hell are you? Do your homework! Read the NEMF newsletters in the 70's you'll see my name and articles. MCOA newsletters have my articles. I'm in the acknowledgements section of the Baxter/Hoffman book. Massalane, Greenbranch, Peersleigh, Berengaria and many others knew me. Hell, I was sponsered by the president of the MCOA and M. Rubenstein the editor of the MCOA newsletter! If you don't know me, does that invalidate my passport?

I will save you the time Steve... I have only bred 3 litters. I am devoted to the breed and enjoy researching pedigrees on my spare time. I've involved myself with Mastiff rescue whenever possible and am a member of MCOA , MCB, OEMC and the Garden State Mastiff Fanciers. Feel free to check up on me... I don't care. I just cannot sit back any longer and read all your demeaning posts. You put down breeders who have contributed much to the breed and have bred some BIS winners. I've put down no one! I've responded to many like yourself who become prosecutor, judge and jury all wrapped into one! Funny how we never see ourselves! Just look at how you've approach me. Then if I resent your method, you'll now say.."see look how you talk to people"! Either way there's no winning.

Throughout my involvement with Mastiffs, I've had the good fortune of some wonderful mentors. I've been humbled by this breed and realize that it takes a lot of perseverance to excel in breeding Mastiffs. I've been involved with the breed since January 1988. I'm in it since 73!

You have to realize one thing Steve... this is not your board. I sit back and look at how many posts you have made and, to be honest, it blows my mind! You can't stand it when someone, with knowledge in the breed, carries on a discussion with you and takes over the 'spotlight'. Spare me!

I, and many others on this board, have just about enough of your ramblings. You rarely give credit where credit is due...I don't play favorites and I limit my disclosure of my personal likes & tastes of anyone's dogs, as not to show favoritism to any one particular breeder or breeders. I'm being considerate of all breeders! instead you joke about things and always put down the other person.

You can take your best shot at me Steve....this is the last I will post to you. If you wish you may call me or e-mail me privately... I have said all I want to and this was a long time coming.... Hit & run! What else is new!!!

regards,


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For the betterment of the breed

"Above all, a uniform type should be aimed at by breeders and uniformity of type can only exist in a proportionate ratio in the purity and distinctiveness in any breed"!.........M. Moore
"If breeds did not adhere to a specific shape, form, and colour range, or if breeders disregarded this blueprint, the breed would degenerate to the point that it would hardly resemble the breed at all. Selective breeding does not just create breeds- it preserves them as well." Breeding purebred dogs inherently means accepting limitations on your freedom to just breed anything...Catherine McMillan
" A reinforced consolidation of the American and British standards could be the basis for restoring our breed to the gladiatorial glory of its ancient past, in capability if not in usage".....Norman Howard Carp-Gordon
"I can live with doubt, or not knowing, rather than to have answers that might be wrong"...Richard Feynman
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Nicci

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Reply with quote  #120 

Enough with the "counter-punch" routine.  This is the excuse you have used every time someone points out how rude and derogatory you can be.  How many times do the breeders on these boards have to point this out to you before you take a step back and realize that they might have a point?  And you do come across as if no one has a valid opinion but you.  If it was just one or two breeders or posters in general, I would be able to just list it as a communication problem due to not being able to read people on the Internet.  But the list of people you have offended is growing by leaps and bounds.  You have alot of historical information that most of us are interested in.  You also bring up good points to ponder.  However, it has gotten to the point where most are ignoring you because if they dare have a different outlook on something you label them "clueless" and "delusional".  If that's not condescending than I don't know what is.  This is not a personal attack Steve(no need to counter-punch ).  Just another attempt to get you to take a step back and look at how you respond to some of the most respected breeders on these boards.  Agree to disagree without being so negative that you lose the interest of the rest of us.         


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Reply with quote  #121 
... Hit & run! What else is new!!!...

Steve... I find no reason to continue further with my conversation to you. I have no reason to run away from you.... Just like you, I too was raised in Brooklyn.... I run from no one and stand my ground.

Why is it that some members on this board, who have been around as long as you have, do not know you? You mention Berengaria... I too know Lu Ann Furch. I have never heard her mention your name.

Just know this Steve, being 'Active' in Mastiffs and being 'In-Active' is a world of difference. There are issues you bring to the table with no experience behind them....yet, you expect to influence (call it what you will) the newbies.

In your prior post, you insulted the British Standard and, in not so many words, the British people. This is totally uncalled for and childish. I had the distinct pleasure of meeting some of those people and they have a wealth of 'working knowledge to share'. I don't know if you realize how you come across with your posts.

My view is shared by many others who are on this board. There are many breeders here who are quite active in the breed and have their own life-lessons to share.

I compare it as thus... you can read up on brain surgery for 30 some odd years...you can pass all the tests with flying colors. If you cannot apply what you've learned, what is the point? This is the difference.

This board is for all to use. It is a friendly environment and one which should encourage breeders who have 'working' knowledge to come forth and share their actual experiences.

You've insulted Becki on this board, Karen, and Carl. At first, you made quite a few references to the Gwenstone site. Carl has 'working' knowledge of the breed and by no means makes a living from them as you claim. You've insulted him and he has more to bring to the table than yourself. He founded the Mastiff Club Belgium in 1985 and is the current President.

I don't have much time to spend on these lists... My days are pretty full. Those who know me can attest to that. I am quite a friendly person and will always lend a hand should a situation arise...but, I will also voice my thoughts when I feel things are getting out of hand.

I find no need to capitalize my words to you Steve...as you have done to me. This is not a shouting match. Consider me the "Messenger" and I have volunteered to share the thoughts for the majority of the long-time breeders on this list.

regards,

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steveoifer

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Reply with quote  #122 

... Hit & run! What else is new!!!...

Steve... I find no reason to continue further with my conversation to you. I have no reason to run away from you.... Just like you, I too was raised in Brooklyn.... I run from no one and stand my ground.

Why is it that some members on this board, who have been around as long as you have, do not know you? You mention Berengaria... I too know Lu Ann Furch. I have never heard her mention your name.
I mentioned Berengaria only because you felt that I didn't exist in the 70's, funny how the proof I gave you re: the newsletters, you fail to mention. Lu Ann knew me back then and that's why I mentioned it! It's obvious that anything I say will be discounted by you. For those that know me no explanation is needed, for those who don't, no explanation is enough!

Just know this Steve, being 'Active' in Mastiffs and being 'In-Active' is a world of difference. There are issues you bring to the table with no experience behind them....yet, you expect to influence (call it what you will) the newbies. I expect to influence only those who get something out of the posts, no more, no less! Please listen to yourself and hear what you are saying. You admit to not ever hearing of me, yet pretend to know all about me and my total experience in the breed! Is there a contradiction there?

In your prior post, you insulted the British Standard and, in not so many words, the British people. Spare me! I insulted no one! If we can't openly discuss a standard, which didn't come down from Mt. Sinai BTW, then where are the open minds and progress foreward going to come from? Silent osmosis???This is totally uncalled for and childish. I had the distinct pleasure of meeting some of those people and they have a wealth of 'working knowledge to share'. I don't know if you realize how you come across with your posts. Who said that there aren't great mastiff fanciers in Britain? Please do not put YOUR words in my mouth and then convince others that they are mine!

My view is shared by many others who are on this board. There are many breeders here who are quite active in the breed and have their own life-lessons to share.

I compare it as thus... you can read up on brain surgery for 30 some odd years...you can pass all the tests with flying colors. If you cannot apply what you've learned, what is the point? This is the difference. And if Lance Armstrong didn't own a bike, I guess in your view, he is no longer capable of riding! You admittedly know nothing about me, where do you form your basis of facts?

This board is for all to use. It is a friendly environment and one which should encourage breeders who have 'working' knowledge to come forth and share their actual experiences. Very informative!

You've insulted Becki on this board, Karen, and Carl. At first, you made quite a few references to the Gwenstone site. Inventing more BS are we? When did I ever knock Carl's kennel, or his dogs? Please provide evidence instead of nonsense! Carl has 'working' knowledge of the breed and by no means makes a living from them as you claim. You've insulted him and he has more to bring to the table than yourself. He founded the Mastiff Club Belgium in 1985 and is the current President. I only respond to what is said, this is still America, not who he is, or what he's done! If I know nothing about you and make an erroneous claim, then I would be clueless, the same applies to others. It means misinformed about that topic being discussed.

I don't have much time to spend on these lists... My days are pretty full. Those who know me can attest to that. I am quite a friendly person and will always lend a hand should a situation arise...but, I will also voice my thoughts when I feel things are getting out of hand.

I find no need to capitalize my words to you Steve...as you have done to me. This is not a shouting match. I capitalize the words Bes, just to counterpoint your comments, please stop reading more into it than it is! Consider me the "Messenger" and I have volunteered to share the thoughts for the majority of the long-time breeders on this list. Nice of you to speak for "everybody"! Unfortunately, I can only speak for myself!

regards,


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For the betterment of the breed

"Above all, a uniform type should be aimed at by breeders and uniformity of type can only exist in a proportionate ratio in the purity and distinctiveness in any breed"!.........M. Moore
"If breeds did not adhere to a specific shape, form, and colour range, or if breeders disregarded this blueprint, the breed would degenerate to the point that it would hardly resemble the breed at all. Selective breeding does not just create breeds- it preserves them as well." Breeding purebred dogs inherently means accepting limitations on your freedom to just breed anything...Catherine McMillan
" A reinforced consolidation of the American and British standards could be the basis for restoring our breed to the gladiatorial glory of its ancient past, in capability if not in usage".....Norman Howard Carp-Gordon
"I can live with doubt, or not knowing, rather than to have answers that might be wrong"...Richard Feynman
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Gina

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Reply with quote  #123 

Well it's time to step in here..

Bessie, Carl and Rebecca..you are fine Mastiff people..and of course Bessie and Mastiffs have a synonymous relationship...Bessie and her lines are well known, her breedings were few and well thought out and her contribution to this breed is outstanding. I have personally dealt with her through rescue and the "good ole days" from late 80's till of course now. She was my link to NJ and never hesitated to help with our MCOA rescue program.

I'm sorry I do not know Carl and Rebecca, but if you are friends of Bessie, you are friends of mine..in fact ALL of you on here bring a certain piece of comrarderie to my life and more importantly to the Mastiff breed.

To that end..STEVE..you and I have had emails, phone calls and I sent you past history of the MCOA and the years that you have missed. I know how devoted you are to the breed's history and because of your knowledge and what I think can help .. the MCOA sponsorship was given by me and Mary. This is public knowledge and I am hopeful you will catch up on the news I sent and see where we are at..

I am going to go out on a limb here..but quite frankly it is Jann's list and she has the right to pick and choose what is appropriate and what is not. I know how passionate Steve is and his heart and head are grounded in that..but sometimes the "delivery" stinks..LOL..and I say this with love, laughter and utmost respect to all concerned. I hate to see this wonderful board go the way of some of the "others" with hurt feelings, people wary of posting, and worse of all, people leaving in disgust.

The reason I say all this ..well I'm old, been there, done that, weathered this and that..and am always trying to be a little less vindictive and lot more kindly and gentle to others. I have learned much from the people on here, as we all came to share and enjoy each others knowledge and love of the Mastiff breed.

I hope you all understand and please stay here for the sake of this list, our breed and education for the new Mastiff folks. I never had these encounters when I started out (we had hammer and chisels for communication...haha)...but I do know that if we step on each others "paws" we are not going to accomplish our ultimate goal..the welfare of our breed.

I try to apply people skills in everything I do, God gave me a talent for the gift of gab and for being a caregiver..

Steve, I don't care what you say or do to me because of this heardtfelt post, but know that the reason I sent you all the old news (and I didn't have to, nor did you ask, I know) was the very reason people seem to be upset.

Although you are a steady stream of gifted history, charts, measurements, webpages,...you still have missed these last years of people and Mastiff news.

I did have "ulterior" motives for picking you to send that package to..it was for YOUR VIEWING PLEASURE so that YOU MAY READ WHAT HAS HAPPENED while YOU WERE GONE...

Get it? got it? gooooood...

 

God Bless you all for coming to the "table" of tolerance, patience and pride in our breed. I'm not angel or judge and jury, but spent many, many hours and time with the printed word. If I am to live up to my membership as a responsible voice for my breed within the Parent Club, this is all part of that COE that I adhere to. My approach may seem odd to some, but my heart is and always has been the past, present and future of the Mastiff breed..but without compromising my joy of helping the people that hold the leashes..

 

Everybody doesn't like something, but nobody doesn't like Gina Anelli ...LOL

G

 

 

 

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steveoifer

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Reply with quote  #124 

Enough with the "counter-punch" routine.  This is the excuse you have used every time someone points out how rude and derogatory you can be. Nicci, I never initiate a cheap shot at anyone. If you've read my posts that's not what I'm about. People can either take or leave any info that I post, the choice is up to them. In Becki's case, she once asked for an opinion about a dog of hers, which I responded to and received a thank you from her.  At a later point in time, when her dog matured, I observed another view which was contrary to my first and I felt I would be negligent in not sharing that with her, because I felt it might help her in understanding more about what she was originally inquiring about. For my conscientious response, I got hammered and bashed by Becki! Nicci, you don't see all that follows up to the conflict, you only see the end result and then assume it's all because of me! How many times do the breeders on these boards have to point this out to you before you take a step back and realize that they might have a point?  And you do come across as if no one has a valid opinion but you.  If it was just one or two breeders or posters in general, I would be able to just list it as a communication problem due to not being able to read people on the Internet.  But the list of people you have offended is growing by leaps and bounds.  I would be negligent in not pointing out misinformation. Information that I've acquired I don't keep, I share! The old guard dogma, is at times a very rigid view, which is hard to remove, or open for exploration. Many people would prefer to just leave things as they are for a multitude of rea$ons. Breeders get very protective and annoyed when they feel challenged, or threatened. They naturally react against the person pushing "new" information at them and I've taken heat 30 years ago as well for this practice. It only gets ugly when they try to discredit me personally, instead of staying on topic and discussing the issues with facts, or counter points! I never get upset with anyone who doesn't agree with me. I do get upset when they place words in my mouth which I've never said, or attempt to "gang bang" my view off the table!You have alot of historical information that most of us are interested in.  You also bring up good points to ponder.  However, it has gotten to the point where most are ignoring you because if they dare have a different outlook on something you label them "clueless" and "delusional".  They are clueless & delusional when they "create" my history, or lack thereof! If that's not condescending than I don't know what is.  This is not a personal attack Steve(no need to counter-punch ).  Just another attempt to get you to take a step back and look at how you respond to some of the most respected breeders on these boards.  Agree to disagree without being so negative that you lose the interest of the rest of us.  I hear you loud & clear Nicci and I hope that you've also heard me! For me, it's all about the dogs. I don't breed at present and I don't have any hidden baggage to hide, or protect. People can either take, or leave what I post. If they choose not to read what I write, that's also fine. It's their choice! I'm not going to change who I am, or what I share in order to play the political two step. I'm an independent poster, just 1 poster out of 500 on this forum. If some don't like my style, so be it.  I'm direct and confront views head on that I deem inaccurate. If that offends some breeders so be it. Bes, just the other day, said that I don't give credit where credit is due. I try to avoid playing favorites and I don't want to get into that game. Ironically, I complimented Karen on her litter a few days ago. She thanked me, Bes didn't see that and Karen didn't feel the need to remind her either I suppose. Perhaps Karen felt that it may have diminished Bes's erroneous accusations!     


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"Above all, a uniform type should be aimed at by breeders and uniformity of type can only exist in a proportionate ratio in the purity and distinctiveness in any breed"!.........M. Moore
"If breeds did not adhere to a specific shape, form, and colour range, or if breeders disregarded this blueprint, the breed would degenerate to the point that it would hardly resemble the breed at all. Selective breeding does not just create breeds- it preserves them as well." Breeding purebred dogs inherently means accepting limitations on your freedom to just breed anything...Catherine McMillan
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Reply with quote  #125 
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I am going to go out on a limb here..but quite frankly it is Jann's list and she has the right to pick and choose what is appropriate and what is not.


Gina, Is there any room on that limb for me?
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