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inohio

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Reply with quote  #76 
If you need me, count me in!
The main differences in a nutshell:
My AM:~charges the fence, even though she knows the person.
          ~does NOT accept men, there has been NO abuse.
          ~now, finding it hard to accept women, children also, a new concern
          ~she drools the same as our EM
          ~the healthier claim? ear infections, and a serious bout w/vomiting
                 and diarrhea requiring emer. vet care @OSU for 9 days
          ~has growled at my children on 2 different occasions
          ~aloof, stays in the background
          ~lunged at a small girl at the park, we cannot trust to take her out in
                  a busy atmosphere
My EM:~loves EVERYONE, at home, outside, in all circumstances
          ~drools the same as our AM
          ~health, no problems to date
          ~outgoing, in the middle of everything, has to be a part of everything
          ~his demeanor is so sweet, I can relax, and take him out in public
         

          
         
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clydeman

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Reply with quote  #77 

Would you consider these problems with the AM an isolated case like the AM breeders proclaim or more common?


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Monica

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Reply with quote  #78 
That's interesting Cammie - I know that many of us have put the same wording or similar to what Jann has on her site on our own - yet her's is the only site that comes up. Hmmmm - we may all need to designate a page and label it American Mastiff so that it comes up as part of the search.

Jann??


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Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays to Everyone~
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clydeman

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Reply with quote  #79 
That might do it.  Good idea Monica.  Put the Designer breed disclaimer on our web sites (or some other things) and put American Mastiff in our seach engine criteria.  Now when American Mastiffs pop up so do mastiffs.  The AM people put mastiffs in their web site search list so why not.  Time to pop the AM Bubble.  The have been riding the EM reputation long enough so it's time to say "No free rides."

Now if I can just get my web site to work properly. 

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inohio

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Reply with quote  #80 

As far as an AM isolated case, I don't think so. I have found a few here with similar problems. I researched the Anatolian and found that our AM has some of these behaviors/traits. That would have been fine, if that was the type of dog I was looking for, but I was looking for a great family dog and not one I have to watch like a hawk, especially when guests are over and also not one that growls at my children. I have had dogs all my life, labs, a chihuahua, a dalmatian, a golden retriever, a border collie...never have I had to worry about guests in my home, it makes me a nervous wreck. That said, she is definitely mine and my daughter's dog when it comes to snuggling, my 27 yr old's dog when it comes to playing...

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goldleaf

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Reply with quote  #81 
Hi Cammie,
If mastiff breeders want their web pages to come up when someone does a search for "American Mastiff", they can take a text box and put it on the front of their webpage (at the bottom usually) and type in American Mastiff over and over (about 10 times). Having those words listed only once is not enough to make the search engines pick it up, so you have to insert it numerous times - the more the bettter, and if you want to insert the same thing on every one of your webpages, it will work even better.  Make the text the same color as your webpage background so it's not visible when you view the page and the search engines will pick it up. There's another way to do it (I think they're called meta tags) but I don't know how to do that. If anyone knows, I'd appreciate hearing how that works. Thanks!


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Reply with quote  #82 

If you need me, count me in!
The main differences in a nutshell:
My AM:~charges the fence, even though she knows the person.
          ~does NOT accept men, there has been NO abuse.
          ~now, finding it hard to accept women, children also, a new concern
          ~she drools the same as our EM
          ~the healthier claim? ear infections, and a serious bout w/vomiting
                 and diarrhea requiring emer. vet care @OSU for 9 days
          ~has growled at my children on 2 different occasions
          ~aloof, stays in the background
          ~lunged at a small girl at the park, we cannot trust to take her out in
                  a busy atmosphere
My EM:~loves EVERYONE, at home, outside, in all circumstances
          ~drools the same as our AM
          ~health, no problems to date
          ~outgoing, in the middle of everything, has to be a part of everything
          ~his demeanor is so sweet, I can relax, and take him out in public

         

 

My observations of my EMs and AM seem to differ a bit from yours.  The differences between my two English Mastiffs and my American Mastiff:

 

My female English Mastiff

Charges the fence and barks frantically with hackles up even though she knows the person/s.

         

Does not accept ANYONE other than me.

 

Drools the same as my AM (only after drinking).

 

Horrible allergies (is continuously medicated - working on diet).

 

Hackles up and cowers at anyone but me (absolutely nobody, other than myself, can even get within 10 feet of her).

 

Always cowers in the background or hides.

 

Is protective of her treats/bones (will growl at other dogs if they get too close).

         

My male English Mastiff

Loves EVERYONE.

 

Drools like a faucet (must clean him, the floor, and the walls after meals), very often wiping slingers.

 

Bilateral TPLO surgery and severe arthritis, cysts.

 

Very nice temperament, but very stubborn.

 

Can take him anywhere.  

 

Is protective of his treats/bones, toys, and bed (will growl at other dogs if they get too close).    

 

My male American Mastiff

Loves EVERYONE.

 

Drools like my female EM (only after drinking).

 

Absolutely no health problems to date. 

 

Extremely outgoing, friendly, loving, patient, tolerant (is a Certified Therapy Dog through TDI).

 

Can go anywhere. 

 

Will share food, treats, toys, bed.

 

 

Michelle

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mariaruoto

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Reply with quote  #83 
Meta Tags:
(with no spaces before or after the < / >s
< META NAME="Keywords" CONTENT="list keywords here" >
< META NAME="Description" CONTENT="Site description." >
< !-- META Tags generated by http://submitexpress.com/metatag.html -- >
< META NAME="author" CONTENT="Site Title" >
< META NAME="language" CONTENT="english" >
< META NAME="copyright" CONTENT="2006" >
< META NAME="keywords" CONTENT="list keywords here" >
< META NAME="description" CONTENT="Site description." >



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"I hope that someday they can understand that it's not 'just a dog', but the thing that gives me humanity and keeps me from being 'just a (man or) woman'."
~Biby '06

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mariaruoto

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Reply with quote  #84 
Michelle - since any Mastiff person that posts on your AM boards is constantly accused of BASHING and/or getting removed fromĀ the siteĀ - even when simple questions are being asked - why do you feel the need to come here and stir things up?




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"I hope that someday they can understand that it's not 'just a dog', but the thing that gives me humanity and keeps me from being 'just a (man or) woman'."
~Biby '06

Maria S. Ruoto
Dunraven Mastiffs
http://www.dunravenmastiffs.com
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Reply with quote  #85 
Maria...

The question the other "mastiff person" (and you) asked regarding AM "rescue" WAS answered, REPEATEDLY I might add. 

Did my post above offend you?  Did my post bash the English Mastiff?  What am I "stirring up?"  As an English Mastiff owner as well as an American Mastiff owner, I thought I would give you my HONEST anwers to the question asked, which was for input from people who own both AMs and EMs.  


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Reply with quote  #86 
I am no expert with web design but I have made a few sites using some of the many free web services being offered on the web. Whenever I create a site on the main page I create something that is called a meta tag. The meta tag is used by search engines to allow them to more accurately list your site in their indexes. You should insert the meta tag element at the top of your document, just after the < TITLE> element.It should look something like this:

< META name="keywords" content="a, list, of, keywords">

You would of course substitute everything between the ""

Choose whatever keywords you think are appropriate.
Should look something like this when you are done.

< META name="keywords" content="american, mastiff, american mastiff,">

You can use an unlimited amount of words as long as you keep them in the quotes seperated by the comma.There should be no space between the < at the beginning of the line. I only did that because the message board does not allow html in the responses.

There are many variations in the use of meta tags but I do find this basic html code to work great. Anyone doing a search for say "American Mastiff" should see your site pop up thus allowing them to see the disclaimer. Like I said I am no expert but this may help.
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mariaruoto

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Reply with quote  #87 

My questions were definitely NOT answered. In fact, you told me that any answer you would give wouldn't matter b/c we would just twist your answers. Nor have any other questions regarding your dogs ever been answered:

Here are just a couple of unanswered questions...

Where is the proof of the extensive health testing done on the original breeding stock?

Where is the proof of the breed/s Freddie used to create the AM?

Where is the genetic proof that the AM is 7/8 1/8?

Where is any current health testing on breeding stock AMs?

Who made the horrible decision to allow 5 breedings in 5 years on a bitch?

Why do AM owners constantly state that they own Mastiffs? (Look at your own boards)


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"I hope that someday they can understand that it's not 'just a dog', but the thing that gives me humanity and keeps me from being 'just a (man or) woman'."
~Biby '06

Maria S. Ruoto
Dunraven Mastiffs
http://www.dunravenmastiffs.com
Mastiffs4U Store
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mariaruoto

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Reply with quote  #88 
Oh, and no, you certainly didn't offend me. Rescues typically do come with issues - so I'm not surprised you have "problems" with your Mastiffs.

It's fine with me - you post here freely - while banning is threatened to me and others on AM boards.

I think one of the biggest differences is that Mastiff breeders/owners admit there are issues we need (and are) working on (byb, mixes claiming to be our breed, health concerns that we test for to try to eliminate, etc) - while AM owners/breeders claim their "breed" is perfection and refuse to admit ANY problems exist.

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"I hope that someday they can understand that it's not 'just a dog', but the thing that gives me humanity and keeps me from being 'just a (man or) woman'."
~Biby '06

Maria S. Ruoto
Dunraven Mastiffs
http://www.dunravenmastiffs.com
Mastiffs4U Store
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Reply with quote  #89 
You know what Maria?  I didn't come over here to argue with you.  I just wanted to post MY observations between MY two English Mastiffs and MY American Mastiff. 

Have a nice night.

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mariaruoto

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Reply with quote  #90 

No answers - what a surprise.


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"I hope that someday they can understand that it's not 'just a dog', but the thing that gives me humanity and keeps me from being 'just a (man or) woman'."
~Biby '06

Maria S. Ruoto
Dunraven Mastiffs
http://www.dunravenmastiffs.com
Mastiffs4U Store
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goldleaf

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Reply with quote  #91 
I was messing around in my website stats today and thought this was interesting......

Most popular browser among site visitors: MSIE 7.0 (50.26%)
Visitors' most common screen resolution: 1024x768 (70.96%)
Top search engine used to access this page: http://www.google.com (96.60%)
Top search word used to find this page: "american mastiff" (45.01%)



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madchemist

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Reply with quote  #92 

scary


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Clinton Shuey
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Megan

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Reply with quote  #93 
I was devastated the other day. Nick and I were walking around a shopping area that allows dogs. We talked to a lot of people, mostly asking what Apollo eats, how much he weighs, yadda yadda the usual. Then a couple with a DDB (French Mastiff) stopped and let their dog say hi to Apollo. The first thing the guy said was "Is he an American or English?"

I said "there is no American Mastiff; that is not a recognized breed. He is a Mastiff!" That just really disturbed me...

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Monica

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Reply with quote  #94 
Interesting Michelle that the two EM's you listed temperaments on are both adopted. Obviously they were improperly bred or mistreated and not raised adequately and that's why they ended up on adoption.... Clearly your AM was with you since birth. Hardly a comparison of dogs that needed rescuing and adopting vs. dogs that have been properly raised since birth.

The other comparison is of two dogs that were properly raised since birth and the difference in the two temperaments being raised by the same person.... Holds a bit more value for me when the "adoption" factor is not included.

If you had compared two EM temperaments that were from reputable breeders and well raised since pups with you to the same set of circumstances with your AM - your argument/rebuttal/point would be more credible for me anyway.


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Monica
http://www.harmonymastiffs.com
Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays to Everyone~
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Reply with quote  #95 

Interesting Michelle that the two EM's you listed temperaments on are both adopted. Obviously they were improperly bred or mistreated and not raised adequately and that's why they ended up on adoption.... Clearly your AM was with you since birth. Hardly a comparison of dogs that needed rescuing and adopting vs. dogs that have been properly raised since birth.

The other comparison is of two dogs that were properly raised since birth and the difference in the two temperaments being raised by the same person.... Holds a bit more value for me when the "adoption" factor is not included.

If you had compared two EM temperaments that were from reputable breeders and well raised since pups with you to the same set of circumstances with your AM - your argument/rebuttal/point would be more credible for me anyway.



It's very interesting that the "rescue/adoption" card gets played EVERY time I mention my EMs.  

My "rescue" Frank's breeder had the MCOA National Specialty Winner's Bitch a couple of years ago.   So Frank is "improperly/poorly bred?"   ....or are his congenital knee problems (and the hip problems in another one of his dogs I know about) from the way they were raised?  

What about my friend's EM I posted about... who is from a well-known "reputable" breeder?  Which category would you put HIS problems (bilateral TPLO surgery before 2-1/2 years old) and his bad hips?  Is that from "poor breeding" or by the way she raised him (which is one the most loving and caring homes possible)? 

The allergies?  The drooling like a constantly running faucet?  Is that from poor breeding?  The way they were raised?

So, I'm assuming you think my American Mastiff is "well bred".... since he has had absolutely NO health or temperament problems whatsoever.   

....and, just for the record:

Inohio wrote:
and a serious bout w/vomiting and diarrhea requiring emer. vet care @OSU for 9 days. 

Check out an earlier post on this thread in reference to the above quote.  She mentioned earlier on this thread that her vet thought it was the result of a virus or toxin at 11 months old (making it hardly a "problem" with the AM breed, as she is trying to insinuate by listing it in the "differences between AMs and EMs").

On a side note....  When I come over here to post my HONEST opinions on my EMs and AM, I know that, no matter what, I will be shot down PURELY because of the fact that I am ecstatically HAPPY with my American Mastiff (and, for the record... for my two EMs also!!), which goes 100% against the grain of this board.  The ONLY way to be accepted on this board is to hate AMs!  

This will be my last post on this board (yes, I can even hear the applause). Even though I have two EMs, I find that I can ONLY talk about them on the American Mastiff boards, where they (and ALL other types of mastiffs, and other dogs, for that matter) are welcomed and NEVER, EVER judged!! 

Happy Holidays to your furbabies!

Michelle

AM Murphy, CGC, Certified Therapy Dog (TDI)
epileptic GS mix Annie (adopted Almost Home Foundation 5-06)
EM Maggie (adopted GLMR 12-06)
EM Frank (adopted GLMR 10-07)
  



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steveoifer

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Reply with quote  #96 
Michelle,

We ALL take heat in this cyber venue from time to time. It's part of the way these things operate I guess and for what it's worth, I was bounced off twice on the AM forum you just praised for speaking up and asking legitimate questions!

You can't control other posters and all you can do is respond as best you can and either absorb/transmit some truth, or not!

Running away won't change one single thing!

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For the betterment of the breed

"Above all, a uniform type should be aimed at by breeders and uniformity of type can only exist in a proportionate ratio in the purity and distinctiveness in any breed"!.........M. Moore
"If breeds did not adhere to a specific shape, form, and colour range, or if breeders disregarded this blueprint, the breed would degenerate to the point that it would hardly resemble the breed at all. Selective breeding does not just create breeds- it preserves them as well." Breeding purebred dogs inherently means accepting limitations on your freedom to just breed anything...Catherine McMillan
" A reinforced consolidation of the American and British standards could be the basis for restoring our breed to the gladiatorial glory of its ancient past, in capability if not in usage".....Norman Howard Carp-Gordon
"I can live with doubt, or not knowing, rather than to have answers that might be wrong"...Richard Feynman
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Reply with quote  #97 

this is a MASTIFF board and the so called AM is a mix that hurts the very breed that this board is ALL ABOUT.  Why should any of us like that mix for anything other than what it is...another mixed breed dog that needed rescuing from a so called "breeder."

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inohio

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Reply with quote  #98 
Yes, OSU did "GUESS" a virus or toxin, they were baffled, but we also had 2 other dogs in the same environment, same food, same care, I was pointing out I have never in my 40+ yrs seen a problem like this, you know with such health hardy dogs?...and when you quote someone, it does appear that you are attacking/confronting, or saying what we are going through must be some fault of ours, didn't you post something similar to this earlier? You obviously sought me out this time. You went back and searched my previous posts and tried to use those to your advantage. If I am anything, I AM HONEST.
If I were to invite you into my house, I would have to get between you and her and every time I would leave the room, I would have to take her with me. Would you feel comfortable in my home? She would be barking and growling at your every move. My friend, who has been to my home many times since our AM was a baby, was helping me with Thanksgiving dinner, our AM stayed under the table and occasionally growled. My friend thought I was struggling getting a 27lb turkey in the oven, she quickly ran to the oven to help, our AM quickly beat her there barking and growling. Another day in my life, Michelle.
I am an American Mastiff owner and there are behavioral problems with mine. Just as there is with others, which MUST be acknowledged. Please don't pretend we don't exist or must be lying. I just stated facts that my family have endured. I would NEVER pull someone's posts and try to tear apart/challenge someone's personal trouble and experiences that they have endured. We go through this anxiety everyday, but I am doing my best to see our AM doesn't have to be put down because of her behavior and some breeder's senseless breeding, lies and denial. Then have to face my young children and tell them that their dog has been euthanized. My kids are still grieving the death of their cat from last Christmas, they take that stuff very hard.
Clydeman asked about our experiences with AM's, and I replied. So did you. Did I challenge what you said OR did I respect you and what you posted?  Are you having a bad day? I really don't know why you feel the need to be argumentative all the time. That is quite pitiful.
I came here and learned a wealth of information about our dog's problems and help from others here to cope with it without criticism or condemnation. Everyone here was accepting, informative, and quite caring and friendly. They did not criticize me, they quickly posted to my concerns.
If the AM breeder would have posted the truth about the Anatolian traits on her website, if there would have been full disclosure, I would've NEVER bought an AM. I wouldn't have had an aloof guardian type raised with my young children, in my subdivision. I too am at fault, I read what was before my eyes and didn't research more on the AM.  I believed all that was advertised, hook, line and sinker. Now I have 165+lbs. of unpredictable.
My lessons I learned the next time out, that dedicated breeders of EM who really care, strive for the best, especially temperament and buyers should too. That is why we need to talk and meet many breeders to find that perfect match. Sure there are temperament issues here and there, but the dedicated breeders who actually care about the dogs and their new families, wouldn't breed or sell these, should some fall through the cracks those dedicated breeders take responsibility.
Only unscrupulous breeders breed, breed, breed to make a buck and never check up on their puppies sold. How lucky am I to have had this my first experience? I hope to help others to learn from my mistakes.
My Em breeder wants to make sure things continue to go wonderfully for Max and us. Thanks to my first experience with a so-called breeder it made me quite wary of people in the dog world. And thanks to a wonderful person on this forum we found our EM, Max and his very sweet, caring breeder still stays in contact with us. 
Here is my Christmas wish for you, Michelle, I wish you peace and love, I hope you find it, your heart seems to be filled with something else at this point.


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mariaruoto

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Reply with quote  #99 
Michelle - any answers to any of the previous questions?

Just because a breeder breeds a top dog - does not mean that they are a great breeder - breed often enough - something is bound to stick - it's the ones that CONSISTENTLY breed greatness that are truly working to improve the breed. What were the health test results on the parent's of your 2 rescues?

A mix cannot be "well bred" - as there is no standard being bred to. One of your own "breeders" stated they don't breed for a physical standard (so if you have an objection to that statement - take it up with them).

You don't know what the future holds with your AM and it's health. Please stop acting as if there are NO health issues with these dogs - it's not true - as proven by your own AM boards - wobblers, hemangiosarcoma, inverted vulvas, limping, allergies, seizures, etc...yep...sure sounds like these dogs are the epitome of health - NOT!

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"I hope that someday they can understand that it's not 'just a dog', but the thing that gives me humanity and keeps me from being 'just a (man or) woman'."
~Biby '06

Maria S. Ruoto
Dunraven Mastiffs
http://www.dunravenmastiffs.com
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inohio

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Reply with quote  #100 

Oh, forgot to mention, since our AM was very young, when sitting, one leg, front right I believe, quivers. She will sit by the sofa and lean into it, as she always does, and her front leg, providing the least support will quiver. I don't know why or what that is, but have never seen it before. Does anyone know what this might be?

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