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Monica

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Reply with quote  #101 
Michelle, I don't read your AM board, have never seen it and have no desire to read it.
I am curious how you came to adopt your two EM's.    Care to share their histories?

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mariaruoto

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Reply with quote  #102 
I just took a good look at the pedigree that was posted...and I just wanted to share my thoughts...
 

FWF is said to have started AMs 20-25 years ago (is there an exact year – why such a wide range?). The attached pedigree is a dog's 4 generation pedigree (the pup being the 5th gen).

 

Original stock appears at the end of the pedigree, which would mean that all of the bitches that produced this puppy would have been at least 4-5 years old at the time of breeding.

 

I've searched for testing on any of the known dogs:

 

Iron Hill War Medallion: TESTED -

MF-1974G92M  HIPS Jul 26 1995  Aug 4 1995  92 GOOD

MF-EL273M92  ELBOW Jul 26 1995  Aug 4 1995  92 NORMAL

 

Pax River Charisma: NOT TESTED

 

Bournewood Kenworthy: NOT TESTED

 

FWF Candy: NOT TESTED

 

Greco’s Duke and Duchess: NOT TESTED

 

Based on this and the number of unidentified dogs – the claim of extensive health testing of foundation dogs is a misrepresentation. 1 testing among 16 dogs is not extensive – it’s only 6%.

 

From the top: Original stock to Original stock (these would be the Anatolians that are not named or identified) produced Olympus Zues L (not identified as to breed). The same (or different combination) of unidentified dogs produced Mink George (not identified). Flying W Farm George (Oympus x Mink) is then stated to be an AM. How is that possible if only Anatolians went into the breeding?

 

Iron Hills War Medallion (Mastiff) x Pax River Charisma (Mastiff) are said to have produced Jericho Ironwar (AM). Wouldn't this dog be a Mastiff?

 

Bournewood Kenworthy (Mastiff) x Flying W Farms Candy (AM) produced Flying W Farms Kandie (AM). How would Kandie be considered an AM when produced from an AM and a Mastiff. Also, how is Candy and AM if she is part of the foundation - what is behind her?

 

Then there is Greco's Duke and Duchess (Mastiffs) produced Hercules the Giant (AM). How did 2 Mastiffs produce an AM? And, why was this dog (Hercules) then registered as a Mastiff stud dog? http://devinefarm.net/studs/akc96w.htm

 

Then, the final combination: Bournewood Kenworthy (Mastiff) and "Annie" (Anatolian) produced an AM - which would not be a true breeding AM.

 

 



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Maria S. Ruoto
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Reply with quote  #103 
Thanks for posting your observations Maria! 

Since the time we had to put our AM to sleep, I've often wished I had sent away for my his "pedigree" - after months trying to get any solid data about FWF's breeding program, I've pretty much given up.  Famous kennel names are thrown around, but trying to put them into any sort of chronological or even logical order is nearly hopeless. 

The sad thing is, several months ago, someone from one of their boards said he was going to contact FWF and try to put together some solid information - I really believe that this particular person was sincere, and thought he would be able to come up with it.  I have yet to see anything definitive posted, anything that goes back more than 2-3 generations, and nothing that shows how the various studs/dams listed on the FWF website are related.

Come on, how long does it take to come up with a extensive pedigree that can be traced all the way back to the original cross?!!!! Just for one dog?  It should be possible, and it shouldn't take months and months, especially since most of the ancestors came from ONE kennel!

All I can think of is, WTF? 

Thanks again Maria



Patti
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mariaruoto

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Reply with quote  #104 

OK - I just noticed this also -

To put the beginning of the AM 20-25 years ago (we'll use 20 for arguements sake), the initial breeding would have had to take place in 1987. Iron Hills War Medallion was BORN Oct 28 1987.

Also, the testing date is July 1995 - which in and of itself raises suspicion - this dog was put under and x-rayed for dysplasia at 8 years old???


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"I hope that someday they can understand that it's not 'just a dog', but the thing that gives me humanity and keeps me from being 'just a (man or) woman'."
~Biby '06

Maria S. Ruoto
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http://www.dunravenmastiffs.com
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Reply with quote  #105 
Thackeray forgot a chapter in his "book of Snobs." He forgot to include a chapter focusing on the dog owner. The American Nazi: Mastiff Owners. You people make me sick. Dogs are dogs. Quit acting so high and mighty because your dog is so superior to other "mutts." Get a life. or better yet, tilt your high and mighty heads back, and walk off a cliff. Thanks.
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Reply with quote  #106 
Awwwwwww Chuck, been hitting the warm bourbon early today, but who can blame you...........you live by glaciers.  Beautiful area Montana but not many people so therefore you must be careful of that Hermit mentality..........don't send mail directly to me-LOL 

Why do you have a need to discredit any member of a Breed that is recognized by every World club?  We have never said a Mutt is wrong, we say do not act as if it is more than anything than just a loved pet.


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Reply with quote  #107 
One should be more inventive with your words so that one finds you interesting--repeapting them does not show your time has been put to good use

No new posts Subject: Potential Solution to the "American Mastiff" Problem
Posted By: dubell3
Replies: 105
Views: 1,686
Thackeray forgot a chapter in his "book of Snobs." He forgot to include a chapter focusing on the dog owner. The American Nazi: Mastiff Owners. You people make me sick. Dogs are dogs. Quit acting so high and mighty because your dog is so superior to other "mutts." Get a life. or better yet, tilt your high and mighty heads back, and walk off a cliff. Thanks.

Old post Today at 08:53 AM
No new posts Subject: Pinned: MASTIFF BREEDERS: Please do your part to help prevent the sale of "designer breeds" by placing the following on your websites
Posted By: dubell3
Replies: 9
Views: 282
Almost everyone on this site is a dog nazi. Stuck up dog nazis. I never thought about people being racist against dogs. You act so high and mighty because of the dog you own? So ridiculous. You're not a better person because your dog isn't a mutt. The bragging about your superior breed dog makes you a HUGE tool. Tilt your heads back- chins high, and walk off a cliff.

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Reply with quote  #108 

Perhaps Chuck if you tilt your chin down and gaze upon the mutt, you will have an understanding that they are just to be loved not bred.  It is called responsible dog ownership.  But to those that have Mutts and do this--then they can be adopted.  If you have paid 1500 bucks for a mutt, then you will have to drink moon shine and not good bourbon--it is the decisions one must make in life on the value of money vs WORTH...............Your Vet of course will enjoy Champagne each time You have to go to them.

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Reply with quote  #109 

Chuck put up a picture of your mutt and mug--you fascinate me.

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steveoifer

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Reply with quote  #110 
General Information
NameChuck  
Occupation:airline pilot  
Hobbies:drinking  
NUFF SAID!



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For the betterment of the breed

"Above all, a uniform type should be aimed at by breeders and uniformity of type can only exist in a proportionate ratio in the purity and distinctiveness in any breed"!.........M. Moore
"If breeds did not adhere to a specific shape, form, and colour range, or if breeders disregarded this blueprint, the breed would degenerate to the point that it would hardly resemble the breed at all. Selective breeding does not just create breeds- it preserves them as well." Breeding purebred dogs inherently means accepting limitations on your freedom to just breed anything...Catherine McMillan
" A reinforced consolidation of the American and British standards could be the basis for restoring our breed to the gladiatorial glory of its ancient past, in capability if not in usage".....Norman Howard Carp-Gordon
"I can live with doubt, or not knowing, rather than to have answers that might be wrong"...Richard Feynman
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mariaruoto

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Reply with quote  #111 
Quote:
Thackeray forgot a chapter in his "book of Snobs." He forgot to include a chapter focusing on the dog owner. The American Nazi: Mastiff Owners. You people make me sick. Dogs are dogs. Quit acting so high and mighty because your dog is so superior to other "mutts." Get a life. or better yet, tilt your high and mighty heads back, and walk off a cliff. Thanks.
 


Does he also provide a big print/small words version for idiots like you?

There is nothing snobbish about not wanting the Mastiff to be falsely registered as another breed.

Now crawl back into your cave until you finish your reading and can have a adult conversion. While you're in there, you might want to deal with your nazi fascination, too - is your dog named Blondi by any chance?

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"I hope that someday they can understand that it's not 'just a dog', but the thing that gives me humanity and keeps me from being 'just a (man or) woman'."
~Biby '06

Maria S. Ruoto
Dunraven Mastiffs
http://www.dunravenmastiffs.com
Mastiffs4U Store
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Reply with quote  #112 
I like pilots with red noses, hope the German does not offend you


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steveoifer

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Reply with quote  #113 


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For the betterment of the breed

"Above all, a uniform type should be aimed at by breeders and uniformity of type can only exist in a proportionate ratio in the purity and distinctiveness in any breed"!.........M. Moore
"If breeds did not adhere to a specific shape, form, and colour range, or if breeders disregarded this blueprint, the breed would degenerate to the point that it would hardly resemble the breed at all. Selective breeding does not just create breeds- it preserves them as well." Breeding purebred dogs inherently means accepting limitations on your freedom to just breed anything...Catherine McMillan
" A reinforced consolidation of the American and British standards could be the basis for restoring our breed to the gladiatorial glory of its ancient past, in capability if not in usage".....Norman Howard Carp-Gordon
"I can live with doubt, or not knowing, rather than to have answers that might be wrong"...Richard Feynman
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mariaruoto

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Reply with quote  #114 
dubell3 probably has a red nose if his hobby is drinking...

Picture of W.C. Fields ,  High Quality Photos  C32376

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"I hope that someday they can understand that it's not 'just a dog', but the thing that gives me humanity and keeps me from being 'just a (man or) woman'."
~Biby '06

Maria S. Ruoto
Dunraven Mastiffs
http://www.dunravenmastiffs.com
Mastiffs4U Store
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Reply with quote  #115 

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Reply with quote  #116 
Redneck Palm Pilot

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Megan

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Reply with quote  #117 
I don't understand... have the AM owners and breeders not read what Anatolian RESCUE says about the breed???? What good could possibly come out of intentionally crossing a Mastiff with one??? A 200 lb. attack dog?! I don't get it! That is NOT being snobby, that is being logical!

10 Reasons not to get an Anatolian Shepherd

by Karen Massa


When I was on the rescue list it came to mind, after seeing the amount of rescues appearing, that people have no place to get the entire “truth” about this breed. NO ONE is posting the truth; there is nowhere to send anyone to read the real pitfalls. I am getting calls from uninformed people with statements like, “well, I saw the photo of them with the little chick, this is the breed for us” or “I saw on a website they are good with kids, my kids want one to play with and walk”! Someone needs to step up and take a stand for our breed and let people know. In reality they should see a photo of an Anatolian MAD and hair raised, teeth gleaming— this could change their minds pretty rapidly!

 

It took me 5-1/2 years and working with rescue to realize the problem. I am at a loss about how to inform the public and stop the vast amount of rescues now appearing. This is what came to mind during this time, and I have written the 10 reasons not to get an Anatolian. There are more than 10, but these seemed to be the problems most are having with this breed. I cannot handle seeing all the rescues happening before me and just sit around and watch.

 

In no way do I profess to be any sort of expert on the Anatolian. No one is or ever will be, and it is not my intention to come across that way. We all are still learning every day. I only wish to relay what I have observed working with rescue and my experiences raising my own two Anatolians.

 

10 Reasons Not to Get an Anatolian Shepherd

 

If one thing is true about the Anatolian Shepherd Dog it is that they take life very seriously and do not view or react to situations as a Golden Retriever, Doberman or other large breed would. Their survival skills are keener, and they are still a very primitive breed, bred to protect livestock.

 

1. The Anatolian is always in a protection mode even though he does not appear so; everything is a threat until proven otherwise. They have no sense of humor concerning protection and cannot turn it on or off for the convenience of the owner. Since Anatolians are very territorial they can be barkers, especially at night. Their bark can be quite loud and hard to control.

 

2. Anatolians may not accept some friends or family members on your property. You should have locked gates when away to prevent people from entering. Most will not accept public workers, meter readers or trespassers on their property and may deal with them according to the perceived threat they present to the dog. The way they might deal with the threat may be shocking to the owner. If 911 is called, they may not be allowed to enter the property or house. It is impossible to “make” Anatolians accept these people if they do not wish to.

 

3. Anatolians will “challenge” their owner for leadership at some time. This is frightening to the owner and must be handled correctly and immediately. Physical force and the “wolf roll” are both ineffective and dangerous. Changing the dog’s thought pattern and reinforcing leadership with verbal controls can be effective, such as commanding a sit and down position when possible. If a challenge is not handled immediately, the dog may dominate you and be impossible to control. This challenge could be in the form of raising lips and showing teeth with hackles raised, a threatening growl, not letting the owner out of the house, and threatening the owner when the dog is corrected, all making the owner fearful of their own dog.

 

4. Anatolians can be impossible to contain because of digging or jumping. This can be managed with solid reliable or “creative” fencing and low voltage hot wire if necessary. They should never be allowed to run loose without fencing no matter what size the property. If off the home property, they should always be leashed, as they can be impossible to manage and very aggressive to passing dogs. Many have dragged their unsuspecting owner like a rag doll behind them, trying to attack a dog while walking, even after heavy socialization.

 

5. Anatolians can be great creative excavators, carving livable tunnels or caves into your property or giant holes to lay in above ground.

 

6. Anatolians shed profusely and can do so in all seasons and all areas of the country with especially heavy periods in the spring in cold weather areas.

 

7. Anatolians can be aggressive to other dogs especially when on their own property. They must be formally introduced and then they still may not accept the dog. They may or may not accept a new adult dog into the family, especially of the same gender. Males generally do not tolerate living together, and many females do not either!

 

8. Many Anatolians, especially on ranches, will not tolerate cats, but if taught to they can possibly live in harmony with them. Their interaction with cats and other small pets must be handled with care and vigilance, never allowing them to give chase in play. You should not discipline your cat in front of the Anatolian, this may result in disaster when the dog tries to “help”!

 

9. Anatolians bore easily and therefore can become quite destructive if left alone with nothing to do all day. Their job must be well defined for them. They have a higher activity level early morning and early evening. They thrive on a daily “routine.” Crating all day is not advised at all.

 

10. Anatolians require more than average socialization for a longer period than other dogs. This can be very time consuming. Many owners are deceived because their Anatolian is so “sweet” when young, and they end socialization too early, feeling it has been accomplished. This is an ongoing process for two or more years minimum, taking your dog into various situations and encouraging good manners. This must be done with vigilance!


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SilverKnight

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Reply with quote  #118 
Quote:
Quit acting so high and mighty because your dog is so superior to other "mutts."


Why thank you I would never say that, but it's nice that you think so.


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Lora & Angus

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emarsh

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Reply with quote  #119 
HA HA Steve - I saw this too !!  It's one thing to be BE a drunken pilot, but imaging  POSTING IT FOR ALL TO SEE !!!!!  Hey Chuck, why don't you give us your real name and your airline, I bet they would like this information too, since your bragging on it !!!
 
Today at 08:11 AM #110


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Erika M.
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goldleaf

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Reply with quote  #120 
bump

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