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steveoifer

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Reply with quote  #101 
Heather,

I mean, that if people are willing to openly discuss dogs that have this issue, it can serve as a red flag to inhibit it's spread.

If a known sire or dam is throwing a problem for others, it should be recognized early and brought to light, not hidden or "stonewalled"!

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For the betterment of the breed

"Above all, a uniform type should be aimed at by breeders and uniformity of type can only exist in a proportionate ratio in the purity and distinctiveness in any breed"!.........M. Moore
"If breeds did not adhere to a specific shape, form, and colour range, or if breeders disregarded this blueprint, the breed would degenerate to the point that it would hardly resemble the breed at all. Selective breeding does not just create breeds- it preserves them as well." Breeding purebred dogs inherently means accepting limitations on your freedom to just breed anything...Catherine McMillan
" A reinforced consolidation of the American and British standards could be the basis for restoring our breed to the gladiatorial glory of its ancient past, in capability if not in usage".....Norman Howard Carp-Gordon
"I can live with doubt, or not knowing, rather than to have answers that might be wrong"...Richard Feynman
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margelutz

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Reply with quote  #102 
mean, that if people are willing to openly discuss dogs that have this issue, it can serve as a red flag to inhibit it's spread.

If a known sire or dam is throwing a problem for others, it should be recognized early and brought to light, not hidden or "stonewalled"!

 
Boy Steve your bating a 100 today :>)
I don't think a breeder should be ashamed , if it pops up .
I know its a big shock if it does for most :>)
 
But when it does just deal with it .
Have all pups tested !! Shut down the line :>)
 
No more breeding till you find out where its from .
 
But don't stone wall it .
 
Marge

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steveoifer

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Reply with quote  #103 

I'd rather be batting 1000, but I know what you meant Marge!..


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For the betterment of the breed

"Above all, a uniform type should be aimed at by breeders and uniformity of type can only exist in a proportionate ratio in the purity and distinctiveness in any breed"!.........M. Moore
"If breeds did not adhere to a specific shape, form, and colour range, or if breeders disregarded this blueprint, the breed would degenerate to the point that it would hardly resemble the breed at all. Selective breeding does not just create breeds- it preserves them as well." Breeding purebred dogs inherently means accepting limitations on your freedom to just breed anything...Catherine McMillan
" A reinforced consolidation of the American and British standards could be the basis for restoring our breed to the gladiatorial glory of its ancient past, in capability if not in usage".....Norman Howard Carp-Gordon
"I can live with doubt, or not knowing, rather than to have answers that might be wrong"...Richard Feynman
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margelutz

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Reply with quote  #104 

Registered: 08/24/06
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    Today at 02:36 PM
Reply with quote #107

I'd rather be batting 1000, but I know what you meant Marge!..


Oh Jesus Steve ,
That got by my  spell checker :>)
Im truly trying :>)

So this means ill have to pay you in Punch ?:>)
Marg e

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margelutz

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Reply with quote  #105 
The litter that recently had so many C+ boys did not start showing up as positive until they were over 3 years old. That's the norm....

Hi Teresa ,
Im not sure on this ,but I dont think Jan tested every year ???
Cause we had no idea we should ??

Now we know we should ! Seems we are learning from her misfortunes

Marg e

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steveoifer

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Reply with quote  #106 

Yes Marge,.....your "famous" punch!...LOL


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For the betterment of the breed

"Above all, a uniform type should be aimed at by breeders and uniformity of type can only exist in a proportionate ratio in the purity and distinctiveness in any breed"!.........M. Moore
"If breeds did not adhere to a specific shape, form, and colour range, or if breeders disregarded this blueprint, the breed would degenerate to the point that it would hardly resemble the breed at all. Selective breeding does not just create breeds- it preserves them as well." Breeding purebred dogs inherently means accepting limitations on your freedom to just breed anything...Catherine McMillan
" A reinforced consolidation of the American and British standards could be the basis for restoring our breed to the gladiatorial glory of its ancient past, in capability if not in usage".....Norman Howard Carp-Gordon
"I can live with doubt, or not knowing, rather than to have answers that might be wrong"...Richard Feynman
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margelutz

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Reply with quote  #107 
 OK This is what i got from Lori,
Her Boy has Cystinuria ,she had the luck to have two Boys ,different breeders  with Cystinuria

So whats the chances of having two Males with it ?
As did Web ,One from a Top breeder who dosent even  want to know about it .And then just a back yard breeder that dosent want to know about it either .I guess we can excuse the back yard breeder ,since they probly know zilch  on Health anyway :>)
But I dont feel the  Top Breeder should just shrug it off .
Anyway here is Loris answer to me . I did ask if it was ok to bring it to the board .

About The surgery and still taking theola ??
Thanks so much Lori :>)



If the dog has the surgery he does still form stones...but they should
pass through the new opening since it is larger.  There have been cases
where the dog has still blocked.  In one instance I know the dog died
because there was not enough of the utherea left to attach it to a larger
opening.  I have heard of some people that keep their dogs on Thiola after
the surgery to prevent this from happening...a large stone still blocking
the opening...however, most do not.  They feel the surgery should take
care of it.  Part of my decision to keep Connor on Thiola was because of
this.  I saw the stones that were rmoved from his bladder and I was scared
he would still block...so we decided he would stay on Thiola.  Of course,
at that time we could easily afford it.   Now it is creating somewhat of a
hardship...but whatever...he will get his Thiola.
x


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margelutz

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Reply with quote  #108 
Yes Marge,.....your "famous" punch!...LOL

Hey at this age
Thats all i got to oifer

Ha that was pretty good ya have to admit :>)

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margelutz

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Reply with quote  #109 
There is no doubt in my mind that the pups breeder would do the right thing by Marge or anyone with a litter mate financially if a pup
turned up C+. Even if it was just to offer to replace the puppy down the road.

 

Hi Eileen ,
 Webb and i are very lucky to Co own a pup from PJ And Brians litter .
 
Matter of fact  two came to OHIO and one went to NY>
 
Webb will be showing all three :>)
 
The thought never occurred  to Webb and I and Laura .
Or Cashmere's  Owners .About the guarantee :>)
 
Cause we know And have no doubts what so ever .
that Scot would bend over backwards ,for His pups as well as their owners :>)
 
Webb and I will try and make you both very Proud of us and the pups at Bucks :>) thanks for all the cookies and the trachea's ,shit i still cant spell it :>)
 
I'm really excited :>)
 
Thanks Marge
 



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steveoifer

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Reply with quote  #110 

That was Marge-in-all!  ;-)


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For the betterment of the breed

"Above all, a uniform type should be aimed at by breeders and uniformity of type can only exist in a proportionate ratio in the purity and distinctiveness in any breed"!.........M. Moore
"If breeds did not adhere to a specific shape, form, and colour range, or if breeders disregarded this blueprint, the breed would degenerate to the point that it would hardly resemble the breed at all. Selective breeding does not just create breeds- it preserves them as well." Breeding purebred dogs inherently means accepting limitations on your freedom to just breed anything...Catherine McMillan
" A reinforced consolidation of the American and British standards could be the basis for restoring our breed to the gladiatorial glory of its ancient past, in capability if not in usage".....Norman Howard Carp-Gordon
"I can live with doubt, or not knowing, rather than to have answers that might be wrong"...Richard Feynman
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WindfallMastiffs

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Reply with quote  #111 
I have tested my dogs more than just one time, I could however only test my pups once that is because they became someone elses pups and then  told the owners it was suggested to retest again at 18 months and that there were false Neg. but not false pos.  I encouraged all my pup owners to continue to test, some did that went to the specialties, others did it from home.  Heck, Webb wouldn't have found it on his first pup had I not told him what to have the vet look for. 
Anyhow, my point is, I have tested my dogs numerous times, not just 1 time!
I have read I think most all of these post and thank some of you for your input.  I'm glad to see how many are trying to figure out a way to stop this and what to do about guarantee's.  I have talked with many breeders about this and all seem as perplexed as those here do, meaning how do you guarantee something that we don't know much about.  I am glad tho, most are at least thinking about this.
There are so many pedigree's "UNRELATED" that are coming up positive, that this is something that is or will be affecting us all!  I remember when Heidi McKenzie started this whole Cystinuria committee, heck her dogs aren't related to mine.  Or Laurie's (B A.) dogs, they are more imported lines.  These ladies got their pup owners involved and got blood and urine way back when in to UPENN, heck they were the ones to get us all informed.  So if you haven't been hit, eventually you will be if we don't get something done.
Also, for your info, my boys that were diagnosed were 30 + months old, so a 2 yr guarantee with this disease isn't going to cover it, that is why I asked, how long do we guarantee, 2 yrs, 3 yrs, what?

Jan


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margelutz

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Reply with quote  #112 
 Heck, Webb wouldn't have found it on his first pup had I not told him what to have the vet look for. 


Hi Jan ,
Well most of us wouldn't know about a Health Matter .
If you didn't inform us of it , As i said ,from your misfortune .

We are all learning ,I wasn't sure if you did test every year or not .
I know you did have all your Pups tested before they went to new homes .

And then UPENN said that wasn't good enough they should be tested no earlier than 18 months ?

I just thought when we all went to Chicago ,and since your puppy buyers were there . You told them to have it done .

Cause your also the one that said it needed to be done after they were  ,like at 18 months .

That at 8 weeks it meant nothing ,so most of your Puppy Buyers had it done again at 18 months ?

Now were those boys that are positive ? were they done  at 18 months ?
Or did the Owners just wait till they were older ?And at the specialty ?


So what do you think a Guarantee  should read 3 yrs ?
Id think for the life of the Dog?  I mean if it doesn't show a positive i would think over  6 yrs old .

It would be out of the woods ???

If it doesn't show up ,then everyone out of the woods ?? And no money need to be paid out ??

Whats your thoughts on this whole deal ?

Plus I don't feel most of us here need to  be told about sending in blood and urien .

I think UPenn needs to get their Arsses in gear ,to find all this out :>)

If Stories are so conflicting ,its due to them ,One say one thing and MCOA says another . I think  as with yourself  all Breeders want to know   how to lick this Genetic Nightmare .

But Its up to Upenn ??????/

Marge

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margelutz

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Reply with quote  #113 
Now were those boys that are positive ? were they done  at 18 months ?
Or did the Owners just wait till they were older ?And at the specialty ?



Hi My Point here was , If they would have been tested at 18 months !
Would  it have been found then ?
If The postive dogs havent been tested since 8 weeks old .

And only then at 30 months old ,It could have been possible that at 18 months it could have been found ? If they were tested then ??

Sooooooooooooooo Eileens contract  would be right on ,at 24 months ?

Marge

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Teresa

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Reply with quote  #114 

Marge, if the owner is so sure that 24 months is fine, why not make the guarantee for life for cystinuria? (I'm not picking on you Eileen, just trying to make a point). If the dog is negative, you should be able to test him every year until he dies and it would still be negative if he were truly negative. Why just two years?


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nancyw

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Reply with quote  #115 
At what age do you think it is safe to quit testing?  5, 6, 8??

Nancy

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Nancy Walker
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margelutz

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Reply with quote  #116 
Marge, if the owner is so sure that 24 months is fine, why not make the guarantee for life for cystinuria? (I'm not picking on you Eileen, just trying to make a point). If the dog is negative, you should be able to test him every year until he dies and it would still be negative if he were truly negative. Why just two years?

Hi Teresa .
Well that's what i said in an earlier post :>)
But maybe that's how they do Hips and elbows ??

So   maybe Eileen felt the same on the Cystinuria ??

I just spoke with Web ,He said His first Boy ,was found to be C+ at 22 months old !And I'm not sure ,but i don't think his other Boy Niko was much more than that ?? Neither of these boys were from Jan !one was a back yard breeder and one a top breeder in Ohio

When those two  boys ,of Jan's were found to be C+ ,that was the first time they were ever tested . I was told


Since 8 weeks old !!So maybe they ,would have been found earlier also ?


How did the 30 months come about ?? Because the 3 boys were 30 months ??

But didn't someone say ,I'm not sure if it was Jan or Anna May Or Lisa :>)
But they can come up positive even at 8 yrs old ? But be negative all the years before ??

I know my Boy is going on 5 yrs and was  .collected by the Vet .
And then sent to Upenn .

So as far as I'm concerned ,hes clear from now on :>)
Since he will never be bred  anyway


See so many conflicting questions and answers :>(

Marge





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margelutz

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Reply with quote  #117 
Marge, if the owner is so sure that 24 months is fine,

Teresa i have a question for you :>)
I was going to start a new thread ,but what the hell ill leave it here :>)

Ok we all agree that Cystinuria is a Genetic  Disease or is it Hereditary?

So a Breeder give you a contract covering  both  of this .

till 30 months old ?

So would you feel Cystinuria was also covered ?? I know i would .

So would that contract stand up in court ?? If a Buyer wanted to pursue it ??

Where it could very well cost the  Breeder way more than a price of a pup !

If those Buyers went through a large amount of Money to find out what was wrong with that dog . could well surpass the price of the pup .

Breeders write up these Contracts ,and advertise all dogs are Generically sound .

But when it comes down to a problem .
They don't know you ??

So please give me your say on that .Or anyone else ??

Marg e


 

 


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StergoMastiffs

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Reply with quote  #118 
I don't know of one breeder that can guarantee a puppy to be genetically sound other than at the TIME OF SALE at 8-12 weeks.  I think that is what breeders guarantee and advertise. 

A dog can get Hip dysplaisa and a lot do later on in life.  Dogs can and do loose eyesight later on in life.  There are many things that are genetic, but many things happen later in life as dogs get old as well.  I get phone calls quite often and people say my dog had to be put down because it had HD.  They are upset and angry, but the first question I ask is how old?  Sometimes I get answers that amaze me such as 8 and 10.  While I sympathize with them, it is not the same as getting a phone call and they say 8 months to 3 years.  People associate HD as being purly GENETIC.  Is it really fair that a breeder gets blamed for HD when the dog is 8 and just getting old?  What about Cancer, I hear more and more about this as well with the dogs dying at age 3-5.  If a dog gets cystinuria at 8, but has lived a happy healthy life up till then is any thing owed?  If a dog lives till 10 but had to be put down because it had HD is anything owed? 

I guess what I am trying to get at is this... IF a breeder is truly breeding for the betterment of the breed, buyers and breeders having relationships, it doesn't matter what a contract says!  PERIOD!  I don't think that if one of Eileens pups was diagnosed at 30+ months she is going to turn her back.  .  I am sure she would be on top of it all, digging, gathering information and getting the puppy/dog all the help it needs. 

I have replaced a pup that died of Bacterial meningitis at the age of 7 months.  It had nothing to do with me, nor the owner.  I felt horrible for what happened.. and it was neither parties fault.  That is me.  I have also stuck to my contract in other situations when yes, the buyer never returned my phone calls or emails, and I bent over backwards trying to get in touch with them prior to problems.  But the minute a problem arose they were livid that I couldn't get to my phone when it rang.  Notice I said I stuck to my contract so they still got their money back (a 12 week old puppy that was diagnosed as having severe elbow dysplasia at 12 weeks LOL) but I made them follow my contract.  They actually wanted another puppy, but THANK GOD I had a money back clause so I could just refund them money and NOT place another puppy with them. 

A contract is only as good as the paper it is written on and can be changed verbally at any point in time.  I think MOST breeders do this!  What about the million other things that can never be mentioned in a contract in detail?  It takes both parties for the life of the dog and what is fair to both parties. PERIOD!

These are living animals and once out of a breeders hands many things change.  I sometimes wonder what happened to the day where people just bought a dog and there was NO GUARANTEE.  We now live in a world where no one wants to take responsibilty for anything.  I don't know how to type what I am trying to say.  I bought a house and I paid for an inspection.  I knew buying this house I would need a new well.  What I didn't know was the roof leaked with in one year, and my house completely flooded (live on a slab) the second year we were here when we had a horrible rain storm.  The owner swore (IN COURT) that it had never happened before, but I had documentation prooving otherwise.  I bought a house as is at the time of sale.  I have to take responsibility for what I bought.  This is not a dog, but sure did cost me a hell of a lot more than a dog, and I lost many furnishings, furniture, thousands in carpet.  It was emotional hell.  I lived through it and learned a lesson.
I know of breeders that have GIVEN away dogs, great dogs and those owners  claim they are owed something because something went wrong.  It amazes me.. IF a breeder GAVE away a dog with cystinuria (NOT KNOWING) and 18 months it tested positive would the breeder owe anything back towards medical expenses in the future?  Is this all about because someone paid money for something?  Where do we draw the line?  I mean if you gave away the dog you can be looked upon as giving someone a financial nightmare they were not expecting. 
I guess what I am getting at is I truly feel that it is not about what is written on a piece of paper, it is what is in a breeders and owners heart to do the right thing and how people treat each other with respect.
*** when I say most breeders I am referring to reputable ones and breeders that I know.  

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steveoifer

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Reply with quote  #119 
You can only do the right thing, if all "other" things were also done "right"!

Testing is available, even though all tests are not 100% foolproof.

Those breeders who decide not to test, take on added responsibility in my view, and should be held more accountable when things go awry.

Those breeders that stonewall information, take on even more responsibility when things go wrong.

Unfortunately, the consequences to those breeders who ignore issues, are never severe enough in order to prevent them from continuing these practices.

Once the breeder relinquishes control of their pup, the owner must begin to test in order to complete the process of information.

Buyer & seller have a mutual interest in following the status of their dog's health into old age. It's not just a breeder's responsibility. 

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For the betterment of the breed

"Above all, a uniform type should be aimed at by breeders and uniformity of type can only exist in a proportionate ratio in the purity and distinctiveness in any breed"!.........M. Moore
"If breeds did not adhere to a specific shape, form, and colour range, or if breeders disregarded this blueprint, the breed would degenerate to the point that it would hardly resemble the breed at all. Selective breeding does not just create breeds- it preserves them as well." Breeding purebred dogs inherently means accepting limitations on your freedom to just breed anything...Catherine McMillan
" A reinforced consolidation of the American and British standards could be the basis for restoring our breed to the gladiatorial glory of its ancient past, in capability if not in usage".....Norman Howard Carp-Gordon
"I can live with doubt, or not knowing, rather than to have answers that might be wrong"...Richard Feynman
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WindfallMastiffs

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Reply with quote  #120 


>>>And then UPENN said that wasn't good enough they should be tested no earlier than 18 months ?

 

It wasn’t that it wasn’t good enough, it was that they had not found any mastiffs that young to be testing positive, so they decided that was not a good age to be testing.  So the only litter of ours that wasn’t tested was the 2 we had last year.  However we had collected their urine, but it was at that time we learned that they were not recommending testing 8 week old pups.

>>>I just thought when we all went to
Chicago ,and since your puppy buyers were there . You told them to have it done .

 

Yes, I did tell them all to test at that time, however only 1 did, he was the first to be tested positive.  When the owner called, we started doing more homework on it, trying to find out what to do for him and then what we needed to do for the rest of the littermates and all the pups we ever produced.  We went to the vets with the owner and asked lots of questions, we called Anna May and asked for her help in communicating with UPENN.  In the end, we were able to get all our mastiffs that are related to our C+ boys into the research program with UPENN.  Meaning all of Tangee’s littermates, ½ littermates, offspring and grandpups are eligible to partake in the research with UPENN by contributing urine and blood at no charge (shipping cost).  Until they have an answer, they want all young boys urine every 6 months and older dogs yearly.  We have contacted each and every pup owner and asked for them to participate, most all have, some don’t care to participate. 


>>>That at 8 weeks it meant nothing ,so most of your Puppy Buyers had it done again at 18 months ?

 

I know most have waited till a bit older, if at all.  As I mentioned above, some didn’t or don’t think it is a major concern to them, no matter how much I tell them.

>>>Now were those boys that are positive ? were they done  at 18 months ?  Or did the Owners just wait till they were older ?And at the specialty ?

 

No, Yes and no


>>>So what do you think a Guarantee  should read 3 yrs ?

 

I don’t know how one can guarantee when we still don’t know the mode of inheritance.  I knew the parents of my C+ dogs were tested Neg, I knew the grandparents were tested Neg.  I have many relatives, all testing Neg.  Yet we come up with pos. dogs after all the testing and 3 litters later.

 


>>>Id think for the life of the Dog?  I mean if it doesn't show a positive i would think over  6 yrs old .

 

So why not just give people money and send them out to buy a pup elsewhere and then your out nothing but the money you may be giving later on down the road for a dog who comes up with a problem years later and then you have no headache of the sweat and tears of breeding and the whole ordeal you go thru with that.



>>>Plus I don't feel most of us here need to  be told about sending in blood and urien .

 

Well, what about the people who have positive dogs who have refused to send in blood?  What about those who have been diagnosed with pos. dogs who refused to admit they have a positive?  If we didn’t need to tell people this we wouldn’t be having this discussion.

 

>>>When those two  boys ,of Jan's were found to be C+ ,that was the first time they were ever tested . I was told Since 8 weeks old !!So maybe they ,would have been found earlier also ?

 

Your absolutely right, but they could have had their dogs tested earlier, that was their choice.  I can only do so much, I can’t hold everyone’s hands and drag them in to get their dogs tests done.  I had educated them about the disease, they have the same access to info as I do, matter a fact, some have more time than I to be on the computer reading these message boards.  I sat with these owners and every pup owner that came to our house and went over the contract for at least 2 hours, discussing health problems and the contract.  Now after the fact, I am told by 2 they don’t remember the part about Cystinuria, heck, what did they think I was talking about when I told them I was submitting their dogs urine in for testing.  At that time, I told them there were false Neg. and testing needed to be repeated and it was recommending to be done at or after 18 months of age and I was able to say they at that time, we had not be affected with the disease.  Can’t say that anymore tho!

 

 


Jan



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Jan & Chuck McNamee
Windfall Mastiffs
Breeding for Quality not Quantity
Come visit us at:
http://windfallmastiffs.com
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margelutz

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Reply with quote  #121 
Your absolutely right, but they could have had their dogs tested earlier, that was their choice.  I can only do so much, I can’t hold everyone’s hands and drag them in to get their dogs tests done.  I had educated them about the disease, they have the same access to info as I do, matter a fact, some have more time than I to be on the computer reading these message boards.  I sat with these owners and every pup owner that came to our house and went over the contract for at least 2 hours, discussing health problems and the contract.  Now after the fact, I am told by 2 they don’t remember the part about Cystinuria, heck, what did they think I was talking about when I told them I was submitting their dogs urine in for testing.  At that time, I told them there were false Neg. and testing needed to be repeated and it was recommending to be done at or after 18 months of age and I was able to say they at that time, we had not be affected with the disease.  Can’t say that anymore tho!
 
 
HI ,My only point was :>)
That if they had been tested before 30 months .
They could have been found to be positive at 18 months ??
 
Since Teresa said  to Eileen that 24 months was not long enough :>)
 
Seems its a good start ,Webs one boy was 22 months ,Niko was 23 months I think ,close to it anyway :>)
 
And your boys probably would have been near that if tested earlier ?
 
I will always say this ,You have always found the Best puppy buyers for your Pups :>)
 
Their Dogs are their Lives :>)  And I'm sure , when you told them to test ,those pups they had no problem in doing so :>)
 
You taught those Buyers everything on testing , and i don't think
they would have ever not did what you asked of them :>)

 

 

Specialy Nat, Kim ,Kristen and Web  as well as Jackie and Monica .THey would never ever think of breeding to an untested dogs .
All of those Owners had your Pups Championed .

I know one  was ,what? number 5 in the country ??

So you taught them well :>)
Marg e

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margelutz

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Reply with quote  #122 
>>>Plus I don't feel most of us here need to  be told about sending in blood and urien .
 
HI ,
what i meant was ,that most of us know that we should test .
But dont you only send blood if they are postive??
Marg e

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margelutz

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Reply with quote  #123 
I don’t know how one can guarantee when we still don’t know the mode of inheritance.  I knew the parents of my C+ dogs were tested Neg, I knew the grandparents were tested Neg.  I have many relatives, all testing Neg.  Yet we come up with pos. dogs after all the testing and 3 litters later
 
Hi :>)
I know all of your dogs were tested for Cystinuria :>)
But How many times ? Once??
 
None of us knew it should be done at 18 months ??
 
Till what maybe 3 yrs ago ? At least 2 ??
 
So we all thought that once was enough ?
My point is ,Until now !:>)
 
So if a breeder did it once .they as you ,would think the Dogs and Pups were clear ??
 
My point being :>)  It was not your fault ,or your puppy buyers fault .
That they only tested once ,in the thinking that  ,you did it before the pups went to new homes  Along with the Cerf , VWD , ect.
 
So why redo it ? You did whatever you was to do :>)
 
Marg e
 
 
 
 

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lutz96@windstream.net
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WindfallMastiffs

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Reply with quote  #124 
Seems its a good start ,Webs one boy was 22 months ,Niko was 23 months I think ,close to it anyway :>)
 
And your boys probably would have been near that if tested earlier ?
 
 
True, however there are the litter brothers who are testing Neg at this time/age.  With continuous testing, we may find they test C+.  So who's to say they would have been C+ at a younger age and had they not, heck we wouldn't have found this at this time and maybe I would have more pups out there to be concerned with, ugh!
Even now with the pursuant of getting these dogs tested, not everyone finds it such a big deal and haven't gotten their dogs tested.  All I can do is ask and keep reminding them of why, that is For the Future of the Breed, not for just my interest.
Jan

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Jan & Chuck McNamee
Windfall Mastiffs
Breeding for Quality not Quantity
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margelutz

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Reply with quote  #125 
True, however there are the litter brothers who are testing Neg at this time/age.  With continuous testing, we may find they test C+.  So who's to say they would have been C+ at a younger age and had they not, heck we wouldn't have found this at this time and maybe I would have more pups out there to be concerned with, ugh!

Hi Yes ,they tested clear .
But maybe they could be carriers ?? and never be a positive ???
So to be safe from  that breeding anyway ,the line should be scraped ,just to be safe ???

Marge

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lutz96@windstream.net
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