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goldleaf

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Registered: 04/25/06
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PERMISSION TO CROSS POST GRANTED

This forum does not sanction, promote, encourage, underwrite, validate, nor recognize the crossbreed known as "American Mastiff", which is a cross between the Mastiff and an Anatolian Shepherd. The Mastiff in America has been and ALWAYS will be the Mastiff which originated in England. The "American Mastiff" is not AKC recognized and it is NOT identical to the Mastiff in America.

This disclaimer is being used as a warning to those who would like to falsely promote this cross breed on this forum and fool others into believing that it is in some way legitimately connected to the Mastiff, because it is NOT!

For further information, please join or sign into this board and type in "American Mastiff" in the search area. I have also listed some of the links below for easy access:

"American Mastiff - how big of a problem is this?"
"American Mastiff - how big of a problem is this - part B"
More links
More links

In addition, here is the position of OUR breed club, the Mastiff Club of America....

The English Mastiff vs. The American Mastiff

Dr. William R. Newman
107 South Broad Street
Bedford, Pa. 15522

The MCOA is dedicated to the health and welfare of the English Mastiff breed conserving its unique breed function as a gentle giant companion and family guardian.

A pure bred dog of this type offers to his owners that he will be of a specific size, shape, color and temperament.

The predictability of a breed comes from years of selection for traits that are desirable and away from those that are undesirable. However, when a breed standard or type is set, those animals within that set have less heterozygosity than animals in a random population.

A so called “American Mastiff” is nothing but a mixed breed when the English Mastiff is crossed with an Anatolian Shepherd or whatever, the resultant first generation offspring, because it is a gamble, the offspring become an unpredictable mix. Coat, body shape, height, color, head etc become a veritable crap shoot. Behavior and temperament, the most essential character of an English Mastiff, varies and centuries of breeding for predictable behavior is lost when breeding to a dog of questionable temperament.

The MCOA is opposed to the cross breeding of pure bred dogs for the purpose of whim and fancy. These mixed breed dogs are not exempt from but more prone to the known genetic diseases of both breeds. They offer none of the advantages that owning a pure bred has to offer.

We urge you to avoid this temptation to purchase a “designer Mastiff”. Be a prudent and informed buyer – search for reputable English Mastiff web sites and most importantly the web site of the Mastiff Club of America..

Remember that buying a dog is not buying the latest electronic equipment, designer handbag or item of in style fancy. Rather it is a long term commitment to a living animal and with prudent selection, should result in wonderful long term relationship..


by:
Dr. William R. Newman

Delegate of the Mastiff Club of America


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goldleaf

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From the Anatolian Shepherd Rescue Network at http://www.nasrn.com/10Reasons.htm

10 Reasons Not to Get an Anatolian Shepherd

 

If one thing is true about the Anatolian Shepherd Dog it is that they take life very seriously and do not view or react to situations as a Golden Retriever, Doberman or other large breed would. Their survival skills are keener, and they are still a very primitive breed, bred to protect livestock.

 

1. The Anatolian is always in a protection mode even though he does not appear so; everything is a threat until proven otherwise. They have no sense of humor concerning protection and cannot turn it on or off for the convenience of the owner. Since Anatolians are very territorial they can be barkers, especially at night. Their bark can be quite loud and hard to control.

 

2. Anatolians may not accept some friends or family members on your property. You should have locked gates when away to prevent people from entering. Most will not accept public workers, meter readers or trespassers on their property and may deal with them according to the perceived threat they present to the dog. The way they might deal with the threat may be shocking to the owner. If 911 is called, they may not be allowed to enter the property or house. It is impossible to “make” Anatolians accept these people if they do not wish to.

 

3. Anatolians will “challenge” their owner for leadership at some time. This is frightening to the owner and must be handled correctly and immediately. Physical force and the “wolf roll” are both ineffective and dangerous. Changing the dog’s thought pattern and reinforcing leadership with verbal controls can be effective, such as commanding a sit and down position when possible. If a challenge is not handled immediately, the dog may dominate you and be impossible to control. This challenge could be in the form of raising lips and showing teeth with hackles raised, a threatening growl, not letting the owner out of the house, and threatening the owner when the dog is corrected, all making the owner fearful of their own dog.

 

4. Anatolians can be impossible to contain because of digging or jumping. This can be managed with solid reliable or “creative” fencing and low voltage hot wire if necessary. They should never be allowed to run loose without fencing no matter what size the property. If off the home property, they should always be leashed, as they can be impossible to manage and very aggressive to passing dogs. Many have dragged their unsuspecting owner like a rag doll behind them, trying to attack a dog while walking, even after heavy socialization.

 

5. Anatolians can be great creative excavators, carving livable tunnels or caves into your property or giant holes to lay in above ground.

 

6. Anatolians shed profusely and can do so in all seasons and all areas of the country with especially heavy periods in the spring in cold weather areas.

 

7. Anatolians can be aggressive to other dogs especially when on their own property. They must be formally introduced and then they still may not accept the dog. They may or may not accept a new adult dog into the family, especially of the same gender. Males generally do not tolerate living together, and many females do not either!

 

8. Many Anatolians, especially on ranches, will not tolerate cats, but if taught to they can possibly live in harmony with them. Their interaction with cats and other small pets must be handled with care and vigilance, never allowing them to give chase in play. You should not discipline your cat in front of the Anatolian, this may result in disaster when the dog tries to “help”!

 

9. Anatolians bore easily and therefore can become quite destructive if left alone with nothing to do all day. Their job must be well defined for them. They have a higher activity level early morning and early evening. They thrive on a daily “routine.” Crating all day is not advised at all.

 

10. Anatolians require more than average socialization for a longer period than other dogs. This can be very time consuming. Many owners are deceived because their Anatolian is so “sweet” when young, and they end socialization too early, feeling it has been accomplished. This is an ongoing process for two or more years minimum, taking your dog into various situations and encouraging good manners. This must be done with vigilance!

 




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goldleaf

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                                dafro

Registered: 03/07/08
Posts: 3

Old post Today at 02:58 PM Reply #1

Okay, here is my story with the AM and Flying W.

Doug and I thought it would be a good idea to get a dog for our son, who was terrified of all dogs. Doug wanted a large dog like the Mastiff, I wanted a Great Dane. This was going to be our first dog and I wanted something that was easy to train, didn’t need much exercise, and above all was good with kids. Doug really wanted a Mastiff but I wasn’t so excited about the drool. So I started to research on the Internet and I came across the AM.

Wow a Mastiff that didn’t drool, lived longer, and didn’t have health problems. I was immediately sold. Doug emailed Fredericka that night and we got on the waiting list. Since this was our first dog we didn’t think to ask many questions about the breed’s history. We got an email October of 2005 that there was a dog for us but we asked to be put back on the list for a future litter. We got the next email April 2006 that another puppy was born. We decided to go ahead and take this puppy.

Fredericka said we could come out a few weeks early to pick out what dog we wanted. She doesn't send weekly pictures or emails like some of the other breeders. So we packed up our 2 year old daughter and 4 year old son and took a 6 hour drive to Flying W Farms. That is a task itself. Doug had emailed Fredericka and said that we were coming but when we arrived Lucy looked like she had no idea why we were there.

I had certain pictures in my head what this place would look like. I thought that maybe there would be AMs running around waiting to greet anyone who came to the farm. However at first glance there wasn’t an AM in sight. Lucy came to the van and we introduced ourselves as future owners of one of the Ben and Sara puppies. She took us to the cage where mama and the puppies were. I had hoped to play with the puppies and let the kids decide which one they wanted. Unfortunately that did not happen the way I had hoped. She brought out two puppies and would only let Doug and I hold them. We couldn’t put the down on the ground to let the kids play with them.

And when we were trying to decide which one to get, Lucy said it didn’t make a difference because they would grow a lot more and she would not be able to guarantee that we would get the same one. Doug and I were completely shocked because we took a long trip to pick out a future member of our family and were completely shut down.

Lucy was nice enough to show us their other AMs. I was surprised to see them in a barn with stalls. I guess I just assumed that they would be part of the family more. I was also amazed how many AMs there were, at least 20. After the tour of the barn we were going back home without even being introduced to Fredericka, picking out our dog, and seeing the kids interact with these large dogs. I can definitely say this was a useless trip, which I would not take again if given the opportunity. Our total time there was less than 45 minutes

Two weeks later we were the first to arrive at the farm and pick up our puppy, Bane. He was the first one out of the shed so we picked him. We took him inside the house and sat down, waiting for Fredericka. She was on the phone and only came out to talk to me (Doug was taking Bane potty) because she need to sign the paperwork. She asked me one question and shook my hand. That was the only time she spoke to me/us.

Bane is a great dog and he was very easy to train. Nice to everyone and great with kids. He DOES drool and shed more than expected. The claim “NO Drool” was what sold me on the AM instead of the Mastiff or Great Dane. I love Bane but had I know that he would drool; I probably would have gone with a Mastiff breeder who is twenty minutes from our house instead of a breeder who is 6 hours away.

Doug asked Fredericka over a year ago for a detailed history of the breed. She ignored him and never emailed him in return. He again emailed her (January I think) and she responded with the same info that is on every AM breeders’ website. I believe it should be easy to get this information from her considering that we HAVE an AM. She never gave us anymore information but another AM breeder wants Doug to call her and talk about questions we have.

Shouldn’t she have answers to all questions? (History, testing, and inconsistencies on pedigrees etc.) If she planned this breed and thought it out would she know exactly when it started? I don’t understand how there can be a five year gap in the beginning of the breed. The claim that they don’t drool isn’t 100% and it seems to be the luck of the draw. Same goes with the health and life span.

I used to be one of the sensitive AM owners that got upset by anything a Mastiff person would post. But then I took a step back and thought we should have concrete answers to all of the questions but unfortunately we don’t. This information should be available to all of us owners so we can better defend ourselves and our dogs.

       

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